PDF to Book

Rich black?

What do you recommend for a rich black for graphic elements created in InDesign?

60/40/40/100?

 Or will your pdf profile convert any black to the best mix?

 

Thanks!

Replytopic_b_normal
Posted by
DonaldJ
Jun 24, 2009 7:08pm PDT
Permalink
DonaldJ
 

For solid black background, I have used the standard black from InDesign palette and found black to be rich enough as if I had blended all four colors per your combination. I admit that I don’t have two different ways side by side to compare but based on my 30 years of lithography printing press checks and having prepared the files on both ways I have a good understanding. Straight black is quite solid rich. However, I’ve found sometimes black is not as rich and in those situations I’ve found black is lacking through the entire book, thus photos lacked the contrast and looked washed out. I don’t think four color combination would have made difference.

I’d say using screen tint of black for large grey background is a small concern because the shift in red and blue and yellow which can make the grey to be reddish or blueish or yellowish, and not perfectly even so it looks a bit “streaky.” I’ve never experienced that with solid black.
-Sancho

Posted by
sanchodesign
Jun 25, 2009 1:09pm PDT
Permalink
sanchodesign
 

Sancho,

I believe that HP Indigoo commerical printer that Blurb subcontracts to its network of printers that operates HP Indigoo. While HP Indigoo is a digital offset press. So that means it is not lithograpic-based procedurement.

I would think it is a way to do this by using CMYK color swatches in InDesign.

Hope that helps. Brian {a passioantely Blurbarian}

Posted by
brianbonitz
Jun 25, 2009 1:36pm PDT
Permalink
brianbonitz
 

When using Indesign, and using the PDF to Book option, you can designate CMYK builds and the HP Indigo will respect the builds that you use. You cannot do this in BookSmart. When exporting the PDF out of InDesign, make sure to use the Leave Color Unchanged (if you have placed RGB images) or Composite CMYK option (if you have CMYK placed images or you want to convert them to CMYK). Builds that total less than 300% are best as the more ink you use, the more issues you may find in the binding of the book. Will post my results with several different mixes as soon as I get my some more test books back.

Posted by
sondo
Jun 25, 2009 3:19pm PDT
Permalink
sondo
 

Hi Sondo,

Thanks for the heads up.

Brian {a passionately Blurbarian}

Posted by
brianbonitz
Jun 25, 2009 7:09pm PDT
Permalink
brianbonitz
 

Best way for getting "Rich Black" in InDesign is by using the CMYK values of 60% Cyan, 40% Magenta, 40% Yellow, and 100% Black. CMYK total value should NOT exceed 240%.

Posted by
avphotos
Jun 30, 2009 3:00pm PDT
Permalink
avphotos
 

As a newcomer to CMYK work I wish I understood this ‘black’ issue better.

In the PDF beta trial I tried to place an sRGB image that fades to black at the edges (0,0,0) on a black background without total success.
I tried using InDesign’s black swatch (0,0,0,100) but the photo was darker and stood out from the back ground [a measured difference of dE 3.5]. Slightly better on the softback press [a measured difference of dE 2].
On another hard back book I tried setting the background to full ink (100,100,100,100). This gave a slightly better match [a measured difference of dE 2.9], but this still doesn’t allow the original photo to blend into the background as intended.

I’m not sure quite how to achieve the same black generated by the sRGB image on a page in InDesign. It certainly seems unintuitive to think I might get a darker ‘black’ with a value any less than (100,100,100,100).
A set a custom RGB swatch to (0,0,0) ? or just build a full page, full bleed image instead ?

As an aside, the (100,100,100,100) ‘black’ gave a darker and more neutral colour [13.9, 1.0, -0.6 Lab] than the InDesign swatch ‘black’(0,0,0,100) [13.9, 2.2, 2.4 Lab].
All measurements with an i1 Pro.

Paul

Posted by
rhossydd
Jul 2, 2009 5:14am PDT
Permalink
rhossydd
 

In Indesign I just set the background frame to black, and ensured the photo was black where it needed to be too… Seamless… I didn’t have to do anything… o.O

Posted by
Xarra
Jul 2, 2009 5:23am PDT
Permalink
Xarra
 

I sent a question to Blurb Support about this and got a bit of a vague answer:

<pre><em>Thank you for writing to Blurb. We recommend a combination of Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow with a 100% Black for a black background. The mix of these colors is greatly up to you. The following is a good starting point for rich black: 50/40/40/100</em></pre><pre>In the end, going on that and the answers I saw in this thread, I went with 60/40/40/100. I'm happy to report the book's just arrived today and the black is perfect. It's up against a B&amp;W photo and matches the deep blacks in the photo. I'm happy!</pre><pre>So, the ideal CMYK mix for pure black with Blurb is:</pre><pre><strong>C: 60<br />M: 40<br />Y: 40<br />K: 100</strong></pre><pre>Hope this helps others asking the same question I was.</pre>

Mark

Posted by
mainwave
Aug 27, 2009 4:35am PDT
Permalink
mainwave
 

Whoops, looks like the HTML formatting in replies is broken. Here it is again:

I sent a question to Blurb Support about this and got a bit of a vague answer:

"Thank you for writing to Blurb. We recommend a combination of Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow with a 100% Black for a black background. The mix of these colors is greatly up to you. The following is a good starting point for rich black: 50/40/40/100"

In the end, going on that and the answers I saw in this thread, I went with 60/40/40/100. I’m happy to report the book’s just arrived today and the black is perfect. It’s up against a B+W photo and matches the deep blacks in the photo. I’m happy!

So, the ideal CMYK mix for pure black with Blurb is:

C: 60

M: 40

Y: 40

K: 100

Hope this helps others asking the same question I was.

Mark

Posted by
mainwave
Aug 27, 2009 4:37am PDT
Permalink
mainwave
 

Mainwave:

Interesting that you claim to have got a good black match with a lower ink setting than I used (see above).

What colourspace were the images you were using ?

Did the blacks of the photo ajoin the black background ? If so was there any difference in tone at all ?

What sort of book did you print and where was it printed ?

Any chance you could measure that black to see what actual value it printed at ?

Thanks
Paul

Posted by
rhossydd
Aug 28, 2009 12:23am PDT
Permalink
rhossydd
 

60/40/40/100 does it for me.

Posted by
cmmaia
Aug 28, 2009 11:45am PDT
Permalink
cmmaia
 

hey all. We’ve done testing of this on our end here at Blurb and also suggest 60/40/40/100 for best rich black results

Posted by
CapnScrappy
Oct 20, 2009 4:13pm PDT
Permalink
CapnScrappy