Tips and Tricks

Locked ICC profile for PERFECT RESULTS

I hope this post helps people with questions about ICC profiling using Blurb…

 I just got back a test book of photos. For this book I used the Indigo 5000 ICC Profile for soft proofing in Photoshop CS3.. The profile can be found elsewhere at Blurb.

Do all your final color, exposure work using this profile and the end result WILL BE AS GOOD AS IT CAN BE!! Amazing results. I will be redoing several books using this profile. Before they were great… now they are amazing!!

Posted by
azcoyote2
Oct 12, 2007 3:56pm PDT
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azcoyote2
 

I agree!  I just got my first book back, and I too used this profile for soft-proofing. (And I used an old version of Photoshop, version 7).  I am very happy with the results – even my B&W images have no visible color cast – the highlights match the paper white!

One important point, though – you MUST have a calibrated monitor, or soft-proofing is meaningless.  I used a Spyder 2 – goes for under $150 – it is the best investment you can make if you care what your book looks like!! I’m sure the other brands, like the Pantone Huey, which is even cheaper, work just as well. The important thing is to calibrate that monitor!

Posted by
rdmastro
Oct 13, 2007 5:58pm PDT
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rdmastro
 

Forget the Pantone Huey! Having bought it, I thought it would offer an improvement over my Spyder 2… NOT EVEN CLOSE!!  It’s now a very small paper weight,

Posted by
azcoyote2
Oct 15, 2007 4:02pm PDT
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azcoyote2
 

Coyote – that’s interesting. I’ve always figured that these things have been around awhile, and they ain’t rocket science anymore!   What was the problem(s) with the Huey?

Posted by
rdmastro
Oct 16, 2007 2:21pm PDT
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rdmastro
 

Where did you find the Indigo 5000 icc profile here at Blurb??

Posted by
juimage
Oct 17, 2007 8:10am PDT
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juimage
 

juimage,

You can get color tips and profile information in our blog post Tips on how to synchronize your color.

– Kathy

Posted by
kathybad
Oct 17, 2007 9:25am PDT
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kathybad
 

Kathy -

 Those instructions really should be updated. As written, they are incorrect, since they suggest "soft-proofing" to the "sRGB" color space.  Actually, they should say to soft-proof to the profile of the output device

The sRGB color space is the "input profile", i.e. the profile which describes what the color in the image actually mean.  It’s used during soft-proof to map to the output profile, which in this case would be the HP Indigo 5000.  The image should be kept in (or converted to) "sRGB" space while soft-proofing to the Indigo.

 

Posted by
rdmastro
Oct 17, 2007 11:29am PDT
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rdmastro
 

... Sorry about the delay in getting back… About the Huey… The results are simply not even close to proper calabration. Colors are all over the place, at least in my experience. You may have better results. I’m staying with the Spyder…

Posted by
azcoyote2
Oct 17, 2007 1:10pm PDT
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azcoyote2
 

one more thing… I know it’s a pain in the butt to go back and soft proof everything with the HP profile… DO IT ANYWAYTHE END RESULT IS NIGHT AND DAY

Posted by
azcoyote2
Oct 17, 2007 1:20pm PDT
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azcoyote2
 

rdmastro,

Actually, the entire blog post  is pretty current.

From the post: You might want to “soft proof” using sRGB as a proofing destination space (or in the future when we provide a printer profile, as the source and the HP printer profile as the destination) and then convert to sRGB after you edit.(Check out Color profile for Blurb books.)

Here’s a direct link to the color profile.

Does this help? Let me know.

– Kathy 

Posted by
kathybad
Oct 17, 2007 5:59pm PDT
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kathybad
 

Kathy –

I guess what I meant was, now that the HP profile is available, you might want to think about removing that bit about "soft proofing to sRGB", since it’s obsolete. In fact, after I thought about it a bit, it doesn’t even make sense. If the image file is using sRGB, then what good would "soft-proofing" to sRGB even accomplish. If the image profile and the proof profile are the same, nothing is gained. 

I even tried it out in Photoshop – set my soft-proof profile to "sRGB Color Space Conversion Profile", on an image that had sRGB as its image profile. Turning on "Proof Colors" made no difference at all in the image, and no gamut warnings at all.  Then I tried it with the HP Indigo as the soft-proof profile, and as I saw when I did the images for my book, the image changes appearance (primarily, gets less contrasty, less shadow detail, and a slight color shift towards magenta), and gamut warnings all over the place!

What I’ve seen from the discussion on this forum is that folks are confused between the "sRGB" image profile, and the profile used for soft-proofing.  I guess my concern about that web page was that it isn’t helping to clear up the confusion.

Posted by
rdmastro
Oct 17, 2007 6:51pm PDT
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rdmastro
 

Azcoyote2 can you write down I brief description on how you process your photos?

Example.

  1.    Open image Is it PSD or Jpg
  2.     Go to  View>Proof Setup >adobehp5000>proofcolor checked then gamut checked
  3.    How do you adjust your image.
  4.   Levels first or hue saturation or brightness contrasts, etc.
  5.    Did you use RAW first and adjust the raw image colors or do you use only jpg.
  6.   How do you adjust for the gamut warning? I use the sponge tool, but notice it makes my greens a grayish-green.  Is there another method you use?

Thanks

Scott

 

Posted by
scottyb70
Oct 18, 2007 5:42am PDT
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scottyb70
 

Hi, do you know if I can use this ICC to larger format like in 13X11?

thanks

Posted by
jgescuadro
Oct 18, 2007 6:25am PDT
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jgescuadro
 

jgescuadro,

In a word, yes.

Posted by
brianbonitz
Oct 18, 2007 10:14am PDT
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brianbonitz
 

Thank you for your reply. But one more question. I check the "Simulate Paper Color" and my color is completely different. As if I lost some of my colors, my white turns like grey, is that normal? My monitor is calibrated… Do I need to play with the colors again?

Posted by
jgescuadro
Oct 18, 2007 1:22pm PDT
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jgescuadro
 

Does anyone know if it is possible to use the Indigo 5000 profile in Photshop Elements 5.0 or 6.0? If so, how do I access it. I have downloaded the profile, but can’t find a way in Elements to choose it. It could be one of the many differences between Elements and CS3.

Posted by
wtmarks
Oct 19, 2007 4:04am PDT
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wtmarks
 

Hi wtmarks,

Not that I know of about using HP Indigo 5000 icc profile in Photoshop Element 5.0 or 6.0, because I use Photoshop CS3 Extended.

Perhaps that you want to address this issue with Blurb Tech Support, and that they would be able to get this back to you with the specific information.

Please use contact form and file it with Blurb Tech Support, to do this, go from here:
http://www.blurb.com/help/technical_support

Hope this helps, no?

Posted by
brianbonitz
Oct 19, 2007 9:43am PDT
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brianbonitz
 

Hi wtmarks –

Unfortunately, Photoshop Elements doesn’t have an "official" soft-proofing capability. It has nothing to do with Blurb Tech Support, it’s one of the functions that Adobe left out of Elements.

BUT – I found this interesting web page, where the author discusses an action he wrote which turns on 6 functions in Photoshop Elements that are not "officially" there, and soft-proofing is one of them. Caveat – don’t know if this works, haven’t tried it myself.  Maybe you could give it a go and let us know what happens! :-)

http://simplephotoshop.com/photoshop_elements/undocumented.htm

 

Posted by
rdmastro
Oct 19, 2007 10:45am PDT
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rdmastro
 

Is the HP Indigo 5000 printer used for ALL books types across the board?  Is this printer only used for hardcover or softcover as well… just want to be sure the correct ICC profile is used to ensure the color does proof correctly for the book type used.  Thx!

Posted by
Jingothecat
Oct 20, 2007 8:31am PDT
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Jingothecat
 

rdmastro,

 

I tried the steps suggested, but still could not get a soft proof in Elements 5 or 6. There is a software package called Qimage which is relatively inexpensive and has a soft proof feature, so I may try that. Thanks again for your help. BTW, my Blurb books look very good, but I would like to see if I could improve on the colors at all. I have calibrated my monitor and I save, as suggested, in sRGB but wanted to try the soft proof option as one final tweak before I submit my current book.  

Posted by
wtmarks
Oct 20, 2007 10:28am PDT
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wtmarks
 

wt -

Sounds good!  Good luck!!!

Posted by
rdmastro
Oct 20, 2007 1:08pm PDT
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rdmastro
 

Does anyone have a link to download the Indigo 5000 semimatte profile? I was not able to locate it on the HP site.

Thanks..

Posted by
ksm
Oct 20, 2007 3:10pm PDT
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ksm
 

Fist, thanks to all for the info!

ksm,

This is what I am looking for also is the actual printer profile so I can softproof my files.

Posted by
juimage
Oct 21, 2007 7:35am PDT
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juimage
 

A final note re: soft proofing in Element 5.0. Thanks to the link posted by rdmastro above, I am now able to soft proof. It took a little trial and error to get the soft proof to show in the Edit screen (it would probaly be a simple matter for more of a computer techie), but it does work. BTW, jgescuadro, when I check the "Simulate Paper Color" box I get the same kind of result you did. My proof copy has been sent for publishing, so I’ll check it against the soft proof when I receive it. That will help me determine what changes, if any, I need to make. I have published a couple of books previously and the colors were certainly better than the soft proof w/ the "Simulate Paper Color" box checked.

Posted by
wtmarks
Oct 21, 2007 12:37pm PDT
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wtmarks
 

ksm -

 The profile can be found at this link:

http://www.bonsai-photography.com

When you click on the "I Agree with the above terms and conditions" box at the bottom of the page, it immediately opens the download dialog box. The file is called "hp_profiles.zip".

 Don’t ask me why this seems to be the only place this profile is available, seems odd to me!

There is also a document written by that website’s owner which describes the process of soft-proofing for Blurb books. It’s at:

http://www.bonsai-photography.com/blurb-color-management.pdf

 

Posted by
rdmastro
Oct 21, 2007 12:54pm PDT
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rdmastro
 

Hi wt -

Could you briefly describe what your "trial and error" was?  I read through that page and couldn’t really figure anything out

Posted by
rdmastro
Oct 21, 2007 12:55pm PDT
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rdmastro
 

Hi wtmarks

Did you get your book that one you soft proof? When you sent your soft proof, did you change anything to it to match your original color?

Posted by
jgescuadro
Oct 23, 2007 5:29am PDT
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jgescuadro
 

rdmastro,

 

I went into the site you recommended and clicked on "Online versions." That allowed me to download the Animated Intro installation (albeit for a charge of $12.00). Then I had to actually go to the downloaded file and copy the Show Tools files (there were two) into the Elements 5.0 file.  I hope I haven’t left anything out in these instructions after all, it was trial and error), but that should get anyone close enough to figure the rest out.

 

jgescuadro,

 

I sent my book to be published before I accessed this soft proofing software; the book has been shipped (after only 8 days) and should arrive tomorrow or the day after. I have gone back into this book and soft proofed a few pages to just see what it looked like. I will soft proof the book again when I receive it and compare it against the actual published version to see what the difference might be. Depending on those comparisons, I may re-edit some of the pages before I resubmit the book for the final print.

Posted by
wtmarks
Oct 23, 2007 12:14pm PDT
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wtmarks
 

Thanks!

Posted by
rdmastro
Oct 23, 2007 12:15pm PDT
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rdmastro
 

where did you find the profile download?

Posted by
Heather Phel...
Oct 29, 2007 11:12am PDT
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Heather Phelps-Lipton
 

If you go to the link provided by rdmastro in his post of 10/19 and then click on "Get full version," that should download the key to unlocking the soft proof file. As I recall, I then had to transfer the Show Tools files to my Adobe 5.0 folder. I hope this helps. As I mentioned it was a little trial and error on my part, but I got it to work. Good luck!

Posted by
wtmarks
Oct 29, 2007 12:34pm PDT
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wtmarks
 

I’ll try posting this again…

After reading the other posts about this, I DLed  the hp profile. Only question is:

Should  the Simulate box ("paper white" and/or "ink black") be checked when soft-proofing and post-processing? I’m using Photoshop 6, if that matters. I’m using the "darkroom" theme, also, so I’m assuming the "ink black" box is checked? There’s a big difference when it checked and unchecked.

Posted by
scayf
Nov 8, 2007 10:55am PDT
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scayf
 

scayf -

 When I used this profile (in PS7) to make my first book, I did check those boxes. Yes, there is a big difference, which must have been correct, because when I then corrrected my images to look good when soft-proofing, they came out looking very good on the printed pages.  So my opinion is you should check them, then adjust to make your images look good.  (All assuming, of course, that you have a calibrated monitor!)

 

Posted by
rdmastro
Nov 10, 2007 8:14pm PDT
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rdmastro
 

I ran a hard copy off from the book preview, using my working CYMK (US Web Coated v.2), and it was acceptable (but for some reason, I had text cut off in caption box under image..three short lines: first line OK, first letter in second line missing, first two letters in third line missing…no clipping error warning), off of a Canon iP6700D. This profile’s given me excellent results for my wall-hangers, but thanks for the reply…looks like it’s back to the drawing  board to tweak everything to the hp profile.

Posted by
scayf
Nov 11, 2007 12:20pm PDT
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scayf
 

azcoyote2

Good info,
what target settings did you use on your monitor?
laptop or desktop
WB 5500? 6000?
gama 2.2?
brightness 180?

thanks

Posted by
DonRazniewsk
Nov 12, 2007 6:53pm PDT
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DonRazniewsk
 

I’m also hoping someone can give me some idea what gamma to set my monitor at.  I’m using a Mac, so the gamma is automatically set to 1.8, which is quite a bit brighter than the standard PC gamma of 2.2.  Which setting will better represent how the pictures will look when printed <del>- 1.8 or 2.2?  Or does this even matter if I can, say, use Gimp, or a trial version of Photoshop for color managment -</del> that is, does such color management take all of this into consideration, anyhow, so long as I tell it which monitor profile I’m using?  I’m new to all this, and trying to get a handle on it.   Thanks!

Posted by
Jewelweed
Nov 14, 2007 1:40am PDT
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Jewelweed
 

I have now spent over 4 hours on this site trying to gather information about setting the profile. It should be a lot easier than this!

 I’ve downloaded the HP 5000 profile, copied it to the Program Files>Common Files>Adobe> Color>Profile folder on my Windows Vista machine. Right clicked the file to install the profile. 

 In Photoshop CS3 Extended, in View>Proof Setup>Custom, I select the dropdown box to select the profile, and the HP 5000 profile doesn’t display in the selection.

I’ve tried this three times now, closing Photoshop, re-starting Photoshop. Rebooting the computer. The profile never shows up as an option. 

Posted by
redcrew
Nov 18, 2007 6:50am PDT
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redcrew
 

redcrew -

 Not sure about Vista, but on Windows XP, it goes into the:

    windows/system32/spool/drivers/color

directory.   I’m pretty sure that on XP, if it’s placed in that other directory (which also exists on XP) it won’t show up in PS either.

 

Posted by
rdmastro
Nov 19, 2007 4:41pm PDT
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rdmastro
 

hey guys

I’m totally new here but I’m looking to do my book since like march and wondered about 

the profiles that so many of you seem to talk about.

 

My images are in sRGB, I got the hp5000 profile for softprofing which gives me a big increase in overall brightness of the image which seem to be notcorrectable (BW images)  ( no matter what I do, can’t match the original files. On the other hand, the preview in booksmart gives me some 0.3-0.5 EV increase in overall darkness. So yea, preview shows me darker, soft prof in cs3 shows 1EV lighter. 

 My screen is calibrated with a spyder. I checked the options to simulate paper and ink black. How to know which preview is closer to the real deal? 

Posted by
konradj
Nov 23, 2007 12:22am PDT
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konradj
 

FWIW, I used the softproofing tool in PS Elements 5.0 with both boxes checked and the final printed pages in the book were spot on. They were slightly darker than my monitor, which I had corrected for by adding a little saturation. BTW, I am extremely pleased with the book. Thanks to all on these forums who gave great information and advice.

Posted by
wtmarks
Nov 23, 2007 2:44pm PDT
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wtmarks
 

what about adjustment after softproofing? you had to adjust the images ?

Posted by
konradj
Nov 25, 2007 1:37pm PDT
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konradj
 

Yes. It was after softproofing that I lightened and added saturation to a number of the photos. Then I softproofed them again until I was satisfied. This took some time in a 330 page book, but it was ultimately worth it.

Posted by
wtmarks
Nov 27, 2007 1:23pm PDT
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wtmarks
 

Ive used the indigo5000 profile on black and white vs. greyscale vs. just about every other color profile and find the indigo profile is the best for monochrome images.

Posted by
chdant
Dec 17, 2007 11:29pm PDT
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chdant
 

I just found Blurb, and I am about to make my first (photo) book which will contain about 5/600 photo’s. I will start on the editing in PS3 today.

Ofcourse I work on a calibrated system. I would like to know how I should treat the photo’s. Can I process the photo’s all I want, including sharpness? And what about the color profile, I have been reading this thread completely, but something is still not clear. After downloading the profile, I need it for softproofing.

Please let me know how to work with the ICC profile: if you have edited your photo’s you can soft-proof them; if the results are not satisfactorily you can make additional changes untill it looks good, is that the way to do it. Or should you softproof from the beginning of photoediting?

Posted by
hoi_roy
Jan 12, 2008 2:10pm PDT
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hoi_roy
 

Hoi_roy,

You continue to tweaking around in your Photoshop CS3 app until you find what you like the best in your photo. It can be somewhat cumbersome and time-consuming especially for first-timer user like yourself.

Always a good idea to “duplicate” your image from original photo, so that way you don’t mess up with original image at the first place.

Posted by
brianbonitz
Jan 12, 2008 3:18pm PDT
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brianbonitz
 

Thanks brianbonitz,

Since I am working from raw files I will allways have the "digital negative" which remains untouched. So if I understand it right it doesn’t matter at which point you do the soft-proofing. One additional question, do you need to check the box simulate paper color or not? (Which really ruins the look of the picture…) Additionally I find that many colors are out of gamut, should I tweak untill all will fall within, or can I settle with some out of gamut colors?

Posted by
hoi_roy
Jan 12, 2008 3:32pm PDT
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hoi_roy
 

The out of gamut warning can be a bit misleading.  An RGB image works on a scale of 0 to 255.  Off-set printing is only capable of reproducing from aprox. 15 to 245 of that scale.  You can see this very clearly in PS if you are in soft-proof, open the levels and pull the sliders on the bottom to those respective points. 

Your RGB image has a lot more information than it’s CMYK representation on paper.  This is just a reality of printing.  The objective is to get as close to your original (RGB) as possible.  Managing the output of color images is easier than it has ever been.  The more you work with it the better you will become.  The test book is critical.  When you can compare the printed piece to the image on the monitor, you will be able to adjust your images to "compensate" for what you cannot see on your monitor.

It’s a fun process to learn how to make this work for you.  I just received my first test book and was extremely pleased with the results.  I have gone back into each of my images and "tightened" them up.  I am quite confident that the tweaking will be  worth the time and effort.  I got that confidence from the test book.

Paul

 

Posted by
pomara
Jan 13, 2008 7:34am PDT
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pomara
 

Hi hoi_roy,

As for your specific question about check the bok to simulate paper color or not, it really depends on the outcome of your photo in or by itself. So it varies. It is really up to you.

Just continue to tweaking and discover the latest outcome you like the best, then go from there.

As for how many pages of your photo book project you are working with, and if it is your first photo book project using Photoshop AND Booksmart, I suggest that you might want to do a ‘test’ photo book only with first twenty (20) pages. Put some photos that is most challenging and difficult file to work with, have that published with Blurb. With test “proof” book published, you have a better idea about those challenging tweaking process with certain images, and you can always improve and work… and learn something.

One thing I have learned that, at any rate, with any images seem to look somewhat dark in Photoshop, it WILL be very DARK printed on Blurb book once published.

As for raw, native photo files, I understand completely! The raw formats are awesome and wonderful to work with.

Does that helps, no? Hey, Paul, thanks for your insight and suggestion. Thanks!

Posted by
brianbonitz
Jan 13, 2008 3:47pm PDT
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brianbonitz
 

My goodness gracious, my typo error in first paragraph, first sentence, “bok” should be “book”. My apologies.

Posted by
brianbonitz
Jan 13, 2008 3:48pm PDT
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brianbonitz
 

My goodness gracious, my typo error in first paragraph, first sentence, “bok” should be “book”. My apologies.

Posted by
brianbonitz
Jan 13, 2008 3:48pm PDT
Permalink
brianbonitz