Tips and Tricks

Locked Panoramas (two page spread)

How do I make a two-page spread with a panorama? For example, I want to make a panorama with 2 inches of blank space above and below the image (or 3 inches above and 1 below). And I want the image to cover two pages, with the middle split by the page break. I read the article about doing two-page spreads where you do a full bleed, but what about doing a two page spread of a panorama?

Any assistance would be great…. Thanks!

Posted by
SL07
Jul 30, 2007 11:32am PDT
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SL07
 

I am not sure if that is possible with Blurb-designed layout design that allows you to do a complete “panorama”—two page spread.

If you have Adobe Photoshop CS3 or InDesign CS3, you could do that. I haven’t get this situation implemented on my case yet. But I am in middle of developing my own custom design with Ps CS3 and InDesign CS3 and do some experiment with that.

Hopefully someone from Blurb Team could offer us some insight or suggestion. You might want to make a suggestion by using their contact form for suggestion. That is my two cent thought.

Have a great day! Thanks, Brian

Posted by
brianbonitz
Jul 30, 2007 12:07pm PDT
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brianbonitz
 

Thanks for the info Brian. I will try and figure out how to do it in Photoshop. But then how do I know how many pixels to make it, since it won’t be put into a standard layout opening?

Posted by
SL07
Jul 30, 2007 12:50pm PDT
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SL07
 

In photoshop open new. set the size to the size of your book x 2 for width ex: large format landscape would be 11×26”. set dpi to 300, color white. open your photo in another frame. use the marquee select to choose the whole thing, copy & paste onto the blank. Dont worry if your picture is much smaller.

use the crop tool and chose “front image” from the toolbar on top. crop the image however you want – full bleed, 1 inch (more or less) on top or bottom…

Now you want to go Layer>flatten image. and save as “image”

get the crop tool again and type in the contraints – in this example 11×13” & crop to form your left page. It should bisect the image exactly. Save as “image – left page” or whatever.

Reopen “image” and repeat crop constraints to make the right page & save as “image-rt page”

In booksmart choose the full bleed template & add them one at a time. They should line up exactly, but if not you can zoom & move them a little to make them work

Posted by
Nimsat
Jul 30, 2007 3:32pm PDT
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Nimsat
 

Thanks a million! I’ll give it a shot!

Posted by
SL07
Jul 30, 2007 4:52pm PDT
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SL07
 

With all respect Nimsat, I believe that is much work for results that may not meet expectations.   Part of each page falls into the gutter of the book and so is not visible.  More on this can be found in the Blurb blog (try a search for "spread" or "panorama").

I would import the whole file into booksmart, then place the same file on both the left page and the right page, each being set to full bleed.   Resize and move the images on each page until they are aligned.   Overlap at the gutter a little bit, taking into account the average of 1/8 to 1/4 inch that will fall into the binding.  Do a test book to confirm alignment.  I think you will be pleased, as was I.

 

Posted by
Kiddawg
Aug 1, 2007 11:53am PDT
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Kiddawg
 

I ran a “panorama” photo across 2 pages by simply splitting the original file in half in PS and importing each as a full-bleed page. Early proofs looked great – like a normal double truck image. I didn’t attempt any overlap at all. Don’t see the need if you are running the photo flush against the gutter.

Posted by
myoder
Aug 2, 2007 9:44pm PDT
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myoder
 

I made a 130+ page book of only panoramas, and I overlapped at the gutter where necessary.  I did a few tests to verify how much.  Some portions of the book (i.e. the front and back, versus the middle) may require more overlap than others.  I arrived at my results through trial and error.

Here is the blog post, with helpful comments:

http://blurberatiblog.com/index.php/2006/11/15/create-a-full-bleed-spread-across-2-pages/ 

 

Posted by
Kiddawg
Aug 3, 2007 7:32am PDT
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Kiddawg
 

Thanks everyone for your advice and insights!

Posted by
SL07
Aug 3, 2007 11:56am PDT
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SL07
 

I made a 2 page panamara shot.  I took my pic into photoshop.  Cropped it to 20×8 inches.  Then split it into 2 10×8 pics.  Put one side on the left page, the other on the right.

 

Posted by
worshamsr
Aug 7, 2007 3:47pm PDT
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worshamsr
 

The "old fashioned" way of for allowing for bleed in the gutter, for offset printing, is to fold each page and assemble a signature.  Each folded page would be placed into the previously folded page, etc.

As an example, the edge of a text block is to be located 1/2 inch from the gutter for page one.  A mark is made on the outside of page one at 1/2 inch.  Then a stick pen is used to punch through all of the pages (with pages closed) to mark the location and distance of each page from the center fold.  For a 32 page signature the mark on page one will be at 1/2 inch while the mark (in the center of the booklet) will be at less than 1/2 inch or about 7/16 inch depending on the stock used.

This will only produce accurate results if the same weight and thickness of stock is used.  The overall issue with a full two page image spread is to position the pages to make it appear that there is no break in the image from left to right.  Here is where some guidance will be required from Blurb to determine what spacing and how that spacing will vary from page to page.  Or what other have stated "how much overlap should be use to obtain that seamless look".

Jim

 

Posted by
alaskaalaska
Aug 20, 2007 8:05pm PDT
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alaskaalaska
 

This was my first book….but this is what I did in 10X8


Book Preview

hope this helps

pictureme

Posted by
pictureme
Aug 20, 2007 11:23pm PDT
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pictureme
 

Sometimes the best logic is correct but flawed.  I have generated panorama images using other services (e.g. Viovio) and all the logic about calculating the bleed, etc.  was required to make that work. However, I just checked my Blurb 13×11 book and indeed the original advice about lining up the image pages in the bookmaker seems correct. Let me explain.

Looking at my book (13×11) the actual paper page is  approx 12 5/8×10 11/16 ".  On the binding side the first approx 1/8 is not printed. When compared to my submitted image in BookSmart, I find the following: the outside, top and bottom of the submitted image has been cut by approx 5/16" (i.e. expanded for bleed and then cropped). It is the inside (binding) side that is a bit strange.  I appears not to have been cropped at all. The actual image submitted starts right after the 1/8" of blank paper. This is right where I would be starting, if trying to combine two pages into a panorama, i.e. right at the stiching.  So the original advice to make sure the right side of the left page and the left side of the right page match seems like good advice giving the printed book I have. This defies conventional wisdom, but I will give it a try in my next book.

 Of course, lining this up in BookSmart is a bit iffy, so I would use an editing program like Photoshop, etc to first get resize  and crop my desired image to 7580×3206 pixels (300pix/inch), then split into two 3790×3206 images to put into the bookmaker.

Stan 

Posted by
schretter
Sep 5, 2007 11:12am PDT
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schretter
 

Hi,

Is it not possible just to update booksmart with a few extra alignement tools and/or a feature for inserting a double spread? Even a simple text box for magnification would do for now as I’m having a lot of trouble getting both images exactly the same size on some pages. How often is booksmart updated?  I think it’s a great program otherwise, I’m trying to sort out my picture book now to be made.

Berb 

Posted by
berbank
Sep 24, 2007 11:28am PDT
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berbank
 

can u tell me how i can import cover layout from indesign. have really problems with booksmart. but managed to got my layout for pages but not for cover
hope in future books could be printed from pdf files

kari

Posted by
kuulluuk
Dec 10, 2007 3:07pm PDT
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kuulluuk
 

This is ostensibly the continuation of the discussion at

http://blurberatiblog.com/index.php/2007/05/03/how-to-import-your-custom-design-into-booksmart/

...although I don’t see the connection.

 At any rate: the .jpg-import method discussed there as a substitute for .pdf support mentions .jpg resolution of only 300dpi.

My question: what’s to keep me from exporting at a higher resolution so as to render text properly?

 

 

 

Posted by
Etnier
Jan 7, 2008 6:07am PDT
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Etnier
 

Hi all, Im new to blurb and as yet have not had a book printed but I have been using another printer here in the UK and producing what I call two page spreads I do all my layout in photoshop as my printers software is PC only.
I have created a photoshop action that splits my two page spread but moves the page by an amount before the crop therefore creating an overlap that is hidden in the stitching. There still seams to be a 50/50 split opinion as to whether this is the right way to go. This is a matter blurbs tech team should be able to clear up with no fuss.
This thread had been going on to long without a definitive answer. It anyone is interested I can post instructions on how I made may actions or maybe I can upload it somewhere.
Paul

Posted by
paulgregory
Jan 13, 2008 3:51am PDT
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paulgregory
 

Paul,

a copy of your action (or a quick outline of the steps within it) would be great, I’m just starting (today) on the first of my 2-page photo spreads. Hence me searching the posts for latest advice before I start.

.......Tony

tony_frankland  (at)  btopenworld.com

Posted by
tfrankland
Jan 13, 2008 5:26am PDT
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tfrankland
 

I just started playing with booksmart yesterday with a friend who is a freelance designer /instructor. We too wondered why there wasn’t just a simple 2-page or panorama template included in the layouts? Is there a technical reason for this? And if not please consider upgrading to this feature soon. The 2 image/split or importing seems counter to the idea of doing a simple/elegant design and it seems like a no-brainer that these books are perfect for this type of display.
Thanks….. Steve

Posted by
sjones25
Jan 25, 2008 11:43am PDT
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sjones25
 

Folks, I just got Blurb and haven’t tried it yet, but I have the solution to this ongoing issue:

This is what mothers are for!

Try several different overlapping amounts on several different two-page spreads and print one book. When you receive it, you’ll see what works best, (tell us all the results), and then mail that copy of your book to your mother. She’ll absolutely love it just the way it is and you’ll make her day!

generosner

Posted by
generosner
Feb 16, 2008 1:06pm PDT
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generosner
 

Paul,

 That action, or as Tony mentioned, the steps you used in the action would be cool. I’m about to start my first book and I have several images that I would like to spread over two pages.

 

Jeff

Posted by
JRSlater
Apr 17, 2008 1:24pm PDT
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JRSlater
 

Surely this would be the most cost effective way to go for the user:

1. That Blurb run a test internally as part of their day to day development, using tests on dummy pages to ascertain the optimum gutter overlap, then publishing the recommended amount for it’s users.

2. With this information in hand, develop an update that incorporates a double-truck/ panorama facility directly into it’s own software.

It seems a bit rough to expect users/ customers to spend $30 each to find out something that is specific to a generic printing process. Putting the responsibility on each user to order a complete, bound test to find out something that Blurb could discover in a couple of hours.

As someone said before, is this just to drive volume?

Nick

Posted by
nickCobbing
Jun 17, 2008 2:29am PDT
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nickCobbing
 

Hi Nick;

There are many threads on the forum here about printing double paged spreads…

In short – there are no simple, easy answers and you can only "do your best"... Even professional books sometimes struggle to line up images correctly!

I think I understand what you’re suggesting, but the Blurb process works (currently) on a single page-by-page system… They can’t even (currently) treat the dust jacket as a single template; it is treated as five seperate elements !!!)

The biggest problem is simply trying to determine or guess just how much you might lose in the middle gutter… The size of the book and the quality of the binding will both affect that, as will the position of the double-pager within the book itself…

From my own trial and error, I have found that if I use PhotoShop to prepare the panoramic image, most of the time it works well…

Drag in your image into PS, and re-size it (and re-sample if required…) to DOUBLE the width of the book size you are using, PLUS 1/8" for small books (in page number terms) or 1/4" for larger books… So, for a 13×11 landscape, you will need an image of 26.125" or 26.25" wide…

Then take two crops from it. The first of 13.125" or 13.25" from the left hand side, and save that as Pano_Page_Left (or whatever takes your fancy)... then… Undo the crop, and Re-crop from the right hand side at the same measurements and save it as Pano_Page_Right (etc.)... Make sure you get the EXACT same measurements otherwise it will NOT line up correctly… (Using actual pixel count is a better option I found…)

The middle 1/8" or 1/4" will get lost in the gutter and/or binding, and the resulting image should line up pretty well… (Make sure you use the Centre-Align Tool for precise placement – (...when the current bug has been fixed..))

Cheers;

Lee

Posted by
lkb-28
Jun 17, 2008 7:40am PDT
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lkb-28
 

I am confused about whether to “assign” or “convert” from Adobe 1998 to sRGB and WHEN to do so. My photos are in Adobe RGB. I make a template page in photoshop and drop in the photos, save it as a jpeg. The template is sRGB and when I bring a Adobe 1998 image into that new file, I see very little color change. However, if I assign sRGB to the original 1998 image there’s a radical shift. When to convert and do I assign or convert?
thanks,
suzanne

Posted by
suzanneopton
Jul 5, 2008 11:20am PDT
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suzanneopton
 

Lee,

I have a question about your method where you add an extra 1/8" or 1/4" to the panorama. 

Suppose you’re working on a 10" book, and you make the photo 20.25". You then take a left hand crop of 10.25" and drag it onto the Blurb page. But, the Blurb page is only 10". The extra 0.25" is lost.

Would it be better, instead, to decrease the size? For a 10" book, double the size and SUBTRACT 1/4", i.e. make the photo 19.75". Then take the 10" crop for each side and import into Blurb. This way, what is lost in the centre is duplicated (i.e. is an overlap) on each page so it will line up properly.

I could be wrong completely and am trying to get my head around this, but couldn’t figure out what happens to your extra 1/4".

Oh, and what bug is in the centre align tool – is it the one where it adds white space around it the first time and then if you select it again it disappears?

 Thanks

 Dan.

Posted by
dasantillo
Jul 6, 2008 3:33am PDT
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dasantillo
 

Hi Dan;

Both methods will work; but with my "extend" option, I would be pushing slightly more data onto the page, (the image is auto-shrunk to fit the page… you don’t "lose" any part of it…) whereas with your "pre-shrink" method, you would wind up stretching some data… I doubt it would matter too much ultimately… As long as your own methodology works; that’s all that matters…

What is important is that the two images have that 1/4" overlap to account for the trimming and binding loss, and that the two images are identical in pixel dimensions, otherwise they won’t line up correctly when using the align tools…

The "Align Bug" I reported to Blurb (still being worked on as far as I know) affects images that are SMALLER than the container size. In those cases the "Align" tools do NOT work correctly; they stretch and distort the image to fill the container…

Provided your image is larger than the container size, then the align tool will work to centralise the image correctly…

Cheers;

Lee

Posted by
lkb-28
Jul 7, 2008 1:57am PDT
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lkb-28
 

Lee,

Thanks for explaing that, I understand now. I guess it’s a matter of whether you prefer to Booksmart or Photoshop to resize really.

Suzanne,

If you have a photo in aRGB, then you want to use Covert to Profile. If you have a photo without a profile, then you want to use Assign to Profile. When converting from aRGB to sRGB, you won’t see very much difference, if any.

Dan.

Posted by
dasantillo
Jul 7, 2008 10:25pm PDT
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dasantillo
 

I just brought in the same picture (pre-made panorama) into two adjacent full bleed pages. Set a nice background color.  And played with the zoom buttons until the center overlap looked right (use high screen mag to make sure) and called it good!  Actually I was amazed with the results.  I used this method 3 times in a 160 page 13×11 book including 2 chapter title pages.  A great way to introduce a topic.  A 25 inch wide  photo really gets the oooohs & ahhhs from the readers!

Posted by
MartyLindal
Jul 8, 2008 1:58pm PDT
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MartyLindal
 

Question about the two page spread: I know we need to allow for a certain amount of space (approx 1/8") to be trimmed off each page whether it be on the top, sides, or bottom.  Isn’t it therefore possible that the two pages of the spread would be trimmed differently?  For example, perhaps the right side page would be trimmed on top and the left side page would be trimmed on bottom resulting in a two page spread that doesn’t line up!  Is this a risk?  Thanks in advance.

Posted by
jrod5000
Jul 9, 2008 8:22am PDT
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jrod5000
 

I don’t think that will happen, I believe the pages are bound (glued or stitched) then they are trimmed to give neat outside edges, then they are fitted into the cover.

........Tony

Posted by
tfrankland
Jul 9, 2008 8:29am PDT
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tfrankland
 

The Lee’s method works very well! I received my book today and the two page spread are perfects! Thanks Lee!

Posted by
petitevero
Jul 24, 2008 7:00pm PDT
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petitevero
 

I don’t understand why, if this is such a question, so many of us want to make a double page spread, full bleed without image loss, why hasn’t blurb put this into their software. Are you paying attention Blurb. Please, a double page full bleed spread on the photo layouts. I can’t put a portrait into these suggestions without knowing if it will look right, the gutter would go right into the face. Yipes

Posted by
RexDominus
Jul 25, 2008 12:17pm PDT
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RexDominus
 

Hi Rex,

You better believe we are paying attention. We have a team from Blurb that reads every one of our Forums’ posts and answers when someone from the community can’t help. And I agree, we need to make it much easier for everyone to create full-bleed spreads in BookSmart, because when done correctly, they look terrific. 

We are working on a better solution in BookSmart. I cannot say when this will be done, but I know it is something that is on the priority list.

– Kathy

Posted by
kathybad
Jul 25, 2008 1:00pm PDT
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kathybad
 

Lee
I’m trying your theory and it’s very trying for me. If all measurements are correct, the image that will be lost in the gutter is still in the layout of the book, thus, visually things do not line up correctly. Is this how I am to understand it?

Thanks
Rex

Posted by
RexDominus
Jul 25, 2008 2:11pm PDT
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RexDominus
 

Hi Rex;

YES; that’s right.. When you are working in the BookSmart editor, you WILL see the overlap on both pages… It’s that part (the overlap) which will get lost in the gutter on printing, trimming & binding…

If you did not have any overlap, then when the book was bound, you would lose some of the image, and then it certainly wouldn’t align…

Cheers;

Lee

Posted by
lkb-28
Jul 26, 2008 2:00am PDT
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lkb-28
 

Rex;

Following up on your earlier post; why would you want to place a face right in the middle of a 2-page spread? Regardless of how well the line-up wwnt, it would still be wholly un-flattering!

I think you would be better off re-aligning the image so that the face did not fall into the gutter area… If that is the main point of focus of the image, then using the "rule of thirds" for presentation, it should not be in the middle of the image anyway, but approx. one-third in from either side!

FYI – The "rule of thirds" is a rough means of assessing images for "impact, and works both vertically and horizontally. For example, landscape images look far better with the horizon line at either 1/3 or 2/3 the way down the image, rather than bang in the middle…

Cheers;

Lee

Posted by
lkb-28
Jul 26, 2008 2:07am PDT
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lkb-28
 

HI Lee:

When I send you a question on a particular topic, I have been doing it on my home page. I have not received a reply from you on my last post.. It’s that because I have to send you a post in this location and you do not see my post unless you click on to my picture and get my home page? This page is about panorama spread on the pages. What if I want to ask you a question that is not this topic? Do I still go to my home page and ask you there or can I send it to you on this location even if the

question is about a different topic?  I have changed my photo so you might not recognize it but my name still appears at Millie Contis.

Millie

Posted by
milliecontis
Jul 26, 2008 1:55pm PDT
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milliecontis
 

Millie;

I’ve just seen your note… Just so you don’t think I’m ignoring you; I will reply in full to this post tomorrow… We’re off out now… We actually have SUN ! Yippee!

But; what was your earlier question that is un-answered? I can’t find one that I’ve missed!

Lee

Posted by
lkb-28
Jul 27, 2008 3:46am PDT
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lkb-28
 

Millie;

Click on this link for an answer to your question about "how to post" on the forums…

Lee

Posted by
lkb-28
Jul 28, 2008 1:36am PDT
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lkb-28
 

I have been using Blurb’s BookSmart, MyPublisher’s BookMaker and Apple’s iPhoto to print my photo books but only the latter has a 2-page panorama template built in. This is a simple drag-and-drop process and works great every time. No gutters and overlaps to worry about. Perhaps Blurb should seriously consider adding this template to the next version of BookSmart.

Posted by
jedd88
Aug 10, 2008 7:32am PDT
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jedd88
 

I’ve been scratching my head over this for days now, and I came up with the following steps—which contradict Lee’s steps above. Can someone please explain to me why this wouldn’t work (or would it work)?

 1. If the full bleed page spec for a 13×11 book is 12.627×10.877, a double spread would be  25.254 wide.

2. Now, since you need to essentially repeat data on the right margin of the left page and the left margin of hte right page, doesnt that mean you should SUBTRACT 1/8 or 1/4 inch from the full width?  That way you can crop each half of the image to 12.627×10.877 with each half having a 1/4 or 1/8 overlap.

Am i missing something? 

Posted by
iamadonut
Aug 12, 2008 11:08pm PDT
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iamadonut
 

I don’t think you are, that is what I have done.

Lee , can we re-open this discussion?

.........Tony

Posted by
tfrankland
Aug 13, 2008 12:04am PDT
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tfrankland
 

Tony / donut;

As I said above – BOTH methods (additive or subtractive) work!

I’ve tried both, and I simply favour my way of doing things; but, as with all things BookSmart – there are many ways of achieving the same end, and all that really matters is that your chosen method works for you…

I don’t pretend for one moment that "my" method is "the" definitive way of doing this…

One thing’’s for sure though, the Blurb Blog Post about how to do this [2-page spreads] does NOT work – at least not reliably… It does NOT take account of the need for the overlap, and the "zoom and align by sight" is fraught with danger IMO

Happy to discuss further at any time…

Cheers;

Lee

Posted by
lkb-28
Aug 13, 2008 1:56am PDT
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lkb-28
 

Thanks Lee…

 I have to say, I am utterly distraught over how…ahem…terrible…booksmart software is. In Blurb’s quest to make it dummy proof they have instead rendered it almost completely useless. I find myself creating the simplest of layouts in PS and then importing them over. I run into bugs all the time. The software hangs every few seconds (I’m running a quad core, too) and the photo placement tools are downright sloppy. 

Have we any hope of improvement in 2.0?

Posted by
iamadonut
Aug 13, 2008 9:08am PDT
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iamadonut
 

Does this technique for creating a full two page spread work if you want to create a partial two page spread?

For example I would like to have a panorama fill one third of the left page and all of the right page with a text box on the edge of the left page. To do this I would use a template on the left page with a text box on the outer edge and an image box on the inner edge and a full bleed page for the right page. Would this work?

Thanks

Andy

Posted by
asjas
Aug 14, 2008 12:12pm PDT
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asjas
 

It works fine Andy, most of my two-page spreads are that way as I wanted a space to describe the wildlife in the photo.

The only issue, as mentioned a few times above, is how much overlap to allow as it depends on the number of pages in your book and how it is bound. I think we are all still on a leraner curve with this as nobody has posted a table saying 40 pages, none, 80 pages, 1/8", 120 pages 1/4" or whatever.

I’m hoping more people will post the overlap used and did it work well? My first book was 80 pages and I left no overlap. It came back stitched, the pages laid beautifully flat when I opened them and the spreads were just fine. I’ve just sent off a 146 page book and have allowed 1/4", won’t know ‘till next week how it works out.

........Tony

Posted by
tfrankland
Aug 14, 2008 2:04pm PDT
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tfrankland
 

Not sure if I am following the correct procedure for a two page spread. I am working with a 10 by 8 book. For the two spread page I have selected the full bleed page, container size is
9.6 in by 8.2. I have cropped the image in Photoshop to 19.325 by 8.2 to allow .125 overlap
I then crop left and right to 9.725 by 8.2 and bring the images into the book. When I preview there is black space all around the spread, left and right edges and top and bottom. Will it print this way? Or should my crop be larger than 19,325 by 8,2, If so by how much?

Thanks.

Andy

Posted by
asjas
Aug 16, 2008 1:01pm PDT
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asjas
 

Opps, forgot to mention I use the Centre-Align Tool for placement of the images.

Andy

Posted by
asjas
Aug 16, 2008 1:05pm PDT
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asjas
 

Lee and I do this a little differently and I am sure that there are other approaches as well.

I would crop the image to 2 x page width MINUS .125" as you are LOSING part of your photo in the gutter.

Then crop the left then the right to exactly the image size required by BookSmart.

That way, when you come to paste into your page it will fit exactly and there will be no fiddling with the scale and alignment controls.

As an aside, for my 146 page book i used .25" rather than .125", but I have yet to get that back to check the results, it is due the end of this week.

.........Tony

Posted by
tfrankland
Aug 17, 2008 10:59am PDT
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tfrankland
 

Tony,  

Hope to here and/or see a review of your book!  

all your help and insights on this forum are always greatly appreciated!!

Posted by
babiigirl11x
Aug 18, 2008 4:42pm PDT
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babiigirl11x