Book Design and Imaging

Locked Info: InDesign Page Sizes and Bleeds

I’ve found some of the information floating around on this site rather confusing. People using BookSmart don’t have to worry about any of the page sizes, but for anyone doing a book design in InDesign you are left scratching your head. One thread suggested using the roll-overs in BookSmart to determine sizes – unfortunately those values are rounded and can be out by quite a bit.

Here are the definitive values. I derived my figures from the base sizes given on Blurbs page.

For book pages the values are based on trim (bleed) sizes of 0.125 inches to the top, bottom and outer edge, and printing resolution of 300 DPI.

Standard Portrait 8×10

  pages:
    Total Size: 7.88" wide by 10" high or 2364×3000 pixels
    InDesign:   Page Size: 7.755" by 9.75"  Bleed: top 0.125", bottom 0.125", outside 0.125"

  dust jackets:
    Total Size: 8.37" wide by 10.26" high or 2511×3078 pixels

Standard Landscape 10×8

  pages:
    Total Size: 9.61" wide by 8.24" high or 2883×2472 pixels
    InDesign:   Page Size: 9.485" by 7.99"  Bleed: top 0.125", bottom 0.125", outside 0.125"

  dust jackets:
    Total Size: 10.13" wide by 8.51" high or 3039×2553 pixels

Square 7×7

  pages:
    Total Size: 6.88" wide by 6.89" tall or 2064×2067 pixels
    InDesign:   Page Size: 6.755" by 6.64"  Bleed: top 0.125", bottom 0.125", outside 0.125"

  dust jackets:
    Total Size: 7.33" wide by 7.31" tall or 2199×2193 pixels

Large Format Landscape 13×11

  pages:
    Total Size: 12.62" wide by 10.88" high or 3786×3264 pixels
    InDesign:   Page Size: 12.495" by 10.63"  Bleed: top 0.125", bottom 0.125", outside 0.125"

  dust jackets:
    Total Size: 13.35" wide by 11.25" high or 4005×3375 pixels


When Exporting to PDF in InDesign make sure you set all the Images sampling values to 300 pixels per inch (under the Compression tab) and tick the "Use Document Bleed Settings" under the Marks and Bleeds tab.

When you pull the PDF apart into individual images in Photoshop, check that the pixel dimensions are the same as those given above under Total Size. 

Posted by
cbnewham
Nov 17, 2007 11:11am PDT
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cbnewham
 

Have you looked into this topic related to custom full-bleed topics such as, here:

Blurberati Blog – “Look no further for full bleed page specs…”
http://blurberatiblog.com/index.php/2007/04/24/look-no-further-for-full-bleed-page-specs/

Other topic in Blurberati Blog, important and useful procedure especially after working with InDesign pieces, here:

“Importing PDF: exporting your layout (pieces) from Adobe CS3 (apps.) into BookSmart..”
http://blurberatiblog.com/index.php/2007/09/04/importing-pdfs-export-your-layout-from-adobe-cs3-into-booksmart/

Hope that helps.

Posted by
brianbonitz
Nov 17, 2007 5:51pm PDT
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brianbonitz
 

Hi,

Yes, I’ve seen all of those. They don’t give the values that are actually needed when starting a new book. They just give you the total page sizes in inches and cm. If you plug those values straight into ID you’ll get the wrong page size!

I’ve set out all the correct values above – so no need to get a calculator out and work out the number of pixels, or trying to subtract 1/8" or 1/4" from the page sizes – plenty of room to mess that up. It’s all shown clearly above in my post.

 I hope one of the Staff makes this a sticky or takes what I’ve written and adds it to the information.

Posted by
cbnewham
Nov 18, 2007 3:53am PDT
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cbnewham
 

cbnewwham,

Ah, I see where you are driving at and aim for “accuracy” set up in InDesign app for BookSmart.

I am in middle of this project, where I create full-bleed layout in InDesign based on what Blurb staff’s tip, the ones I provided you with the frame of references to these link, etc.

I wonder if that ‘fuzzy, jazzy’ JPG looks with text on many JPG pages on BookSmart caused by inaccurate page size. I would really think that this has nothing to do with InDesign (and Photoshop) apps. It has a lot do with BookSmart’s failure to “interpret” image format set by Photoshop, where I see all of garbage inaccurate look of text. The images on all other pages looks very nice, but not so great with text.

Is it because of BookSmart fail to understand Photoshop’s rasterized text in an image, which not appear as crisp as actual text in the PDF. The text entered in InDesign is stored in a separate layer in the PDF and is only converted to an image before it is run through the press. Under this impression, the text in an image converted to a bitmapped file, and then converted to a JPG before being inserted into PDF as a page? Some data will inevitably be lost during the JPG compression, especially if the original image with the text also a JPG.

That is precisely what is happening with BookSmart not able to interpret the information or data based on that JPG file converted to accommodate BookSmart’s specs requirement from Photoshop/InDesign.

I really like to see that Blurb should accept high resolution PDF submission as opposed to GO through the miserable process through BookSmart for that matter.

I will take a note about your accurate full-bleed set up specs in InDesign for my 13 by 11 hard cover project and in the future as well.

Thanks for your heads up and help.

Posted by
brianbonitz
Nov 18, 2007 4:20pm PDT
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brianbonitz
 

That’s ok – glad to help. I found after I’d written the post that one of my projects was incorrectly sized because I’d subtracted 1/8" instead of 1/4" of the height when I plugged the values into InDesign to start with. So it was good to get it all sorted out.

As for text, I have come to the conclusion it probably is not the jpegs or booksmart that are at fault. I think it is the printer. I cannot comment on the output from the HP Indigo printer as I have not done a book that uses that printer. However, I have done a 7×7 book that uses the IGen 3 and the text has fuzzies caused by the printing screen (presumably during the RIP). You have no doubt seen my comparison in this posting.

 I should think BookSmart is putting the jpegs straight into the file stream as-is. If your text is created at 300DPI then there will be no jaggies (it should be no different to vector-based text) and if your jpeg compression is low (I always set mine to the maximum value – 100% or 12 in photoshop) then there will be no artifacts.

The upshot is, sending an InDesign PDF (if it was possible) probably won’t make much difference.

However, as I said, I haven’t seen what the Indigo produces, so I can only comment on the IGen output and say that Blurb needs to tweak it because there is no reason the text should have fuzzies on it. See my comparison for proof of that.

 

Posted by
cbnewham
Nov 18, 2007 4:48pm PDT
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cbnewham
 

Hello cbnewwham.

I’m starting to design my book which will be portrait 8×10 in size and I’m using Indesign. I will use your suggested sizes for the total size and bleed numbers. One question: When I’m placing full bleed pictures in the document to I size it to fill out to the bleed marks or just the page marks? Any info would be appreciated.

Regards,
Johann
http://gudbjargarson.net

Posted by
gudbjargarso
Jan 28, 2008 11:27am PDT
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gudbjargarso
 

Hi

First, Thanks to cbnewwham for this info. I have successfully produced a book from InDesign using these templates and some other info about JPEG export and double page layout.

To answer Johann’s question: in InDesign make sure your photos go to the BLEED marks around the pages to ensure that you get the full bleed. Note that you may have to view single pages versus "facing pages" to get this perfectly right for images that only take up one page.

Posted by
nfitt
Feb 11, 2008 7:27pm PDT
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nfitt
 

Try this: Using Indesign, create a 10" x 10" doc with one inch bleeds on all sides. Place a black rectangle on the page, that is sized to include the added bleed. Then export the page to a jpeg.  You’ll find that the resulting image is 10×10, i.e the bleed makes no difference in the export – it is completely ignored!  So, unless I am doing something wrong, I think you need to set the InDesign page dimensions to include the bleed you need in booksmart, and set the InDesign bleed to zero.

Best regards,

Johnj

Posted by
vintageradio
Mar 1, 2008 12:07am PDT
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vintageradio
 

Hi all. Helpful thread this. Just wanted to ask about text settings when exporting to PDF. Do you suggest or does Blurb require the conversion of all text to outlines?

I am using two fonts in my book which are not in the standard set and one of which I may have trouble embedding.

Or, as I see you have to pull the pages apart in Photoshop, does it not matter?

 

Thanks

Alfie 

Posted by
AlfieUK
Mar 4, 2008 12:50am PDT
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AlfieUK
 

Hi there
I was wondering if anyone knows if there are any downloadable templates that can be used with indesign & blurb?

Posted by
peekaybee
Oct 31, 2012 5:00am PDT
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peekaybee
 

The only ones that I have found so far are just a rough page guide. thinking of upgrading from using lightroom as the templates there are not adjustable enough

Posted by
peekaybee
Oct 31, 2012 5:02am PDT
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peekaybee
 

It’s annoying that in their effort to make Blurb simple for beginners, they make it more complex than a traditional printing house for pro users.

All we really need is an industry standard spec sheet. It would take someone at Blurb a few minutes to put one together.

Posted by
paulraphael
Nov 1, 2012 11:12am PDT
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paulraphael
 

Blurb has an InDesign script that will do the page setup for you.  If you want to use photoshop you can find templates in psd format here. 

https://sites.google.com/site/ps2blurb/Home/ps2blurb

I didn’t make pocket or trade book templates.  They didn’t exist at the time.  If you need them and ask nicely, I might add them to the site.

 Mike

Posted by
Charybdis
Nov 2, 2012 2:14pm PDT
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Charybdis
 

Hi thanks for your help.
Will look into it
cheers
Patrick

Posted by
peekaybee
Nov 6, 2012 5:01am PDT
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peekaybee