Book Design and Imaging

InDesign export to JPG then into BookSmart....

I finished my first book – Layout was done in InDesign and exported as 300dpi jpg files.

These files were imported into Booksmart and then uploaded for book order.

I have a few pages with Text that was rendered during the conversion process ( I didn’t want to use Booksmart for anything other than full bleed import ).

Once my book was uploaded, I previewed it and the text looked bad. Is this just a result of the text being rendered to jpg and not outlines?

I couldn’t find looking thru the forum, thanks in advance
:)

Replytopic_b_normal
Posted by
chipwillis
Feb 8, 2008 1:04pm PDT
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chipwillis
 

Chip—

Not sure as it appears that you are using CS3 version of InDesign which has its own export to Jpeg function.

However, using an earlier version of InDesign, I have converted the document to pdft, imported the pdf to photoshop and then saved each page as a jpeg. The type does look choppy in thepreview but came out just fine when printed.

I assume that this is because we are only viewing a "screen shot" of the image and not the real image as represented by all those ones and zeros.

pax,

R

Posted by
rustoleum
Feb 10, 2008 9:09am PDT
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rustoleum
 

I was aqdvised by Blurb staff at one point to be sure to design Indesign or Photoshop pages at 600 dpi, and then convert  to JPEG and then import them to your Book. I’ve noticed that the type quality is better than previously when I imported at 300dpi. Even so, the type on those pages which were composed in Photoshop are not as high quality as the type which appears in Booksmart text boxes. (I’m refering to the  appearance of the actual physical books when I recieved them- not  how things look in ‘Preview’ mode on my screen).

Posted by
cantudoit2
Feb 10, 2008 11:47am PDT
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cantudoit2
 

I did a trial book a couple of weeks back and found that Photoshop designed pages with text on printed better when I exported them as .PNG than as .JPEG.  I assumed that that was because .PNG uses a lossless comprension compared with JPEG. The difference only really showed up on two facing pages that were identical except for the export file type, on the other pages I had to look quite closely to tell the difference, but there was a difference. There was no difference that I could see in the quality of the printed photos.

.........Tony

Posted by
tfrankland
Feb 10, 2008 12:22pm PDT
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tfrankland
 

Tony,

I agree that text looks better (soft proof) when exporting to PNG with Photoshop instead of JPG. When You imported the full bleed PNG-pages in BookSmart did it actually upload the original PNG-files or did the program "downgrade" them to JPG’s before uploading?

Cheers, Richard

Posted by
ike42
Feb 13, 2008 12:19am PDT
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ike42
 

Hi Richard,

 they stayed as .PNG , no conversions .

..........Tony

Posted by
tfrankland
Feb 13, 2008 1:26am PDT
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tfrankland
 

Hi Chip, I understand your problem and would rather do the type in BookSmart. The type will be sent as device independent vectors and print out very sharp. Using 300DPi for type in a JPG file is going to give you jaggies. Even if you go up in resolution, your book’s images will get compressed during upload, effectively re-introducing jaggies.

Copy and paste the text btwn InD and BookSmart for best results.

 

-Nik 

Posted by
nickvas
Feb 13, 2008 10:30am PDT
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nickvas
 

I’ve just looked again and I cannot (with the naked eye) see any jaggies.

.........Tony

Posted by
tfrankland
Feb 13, 2008 12:26pm PDT
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tfrankland
 

Just wanted to say, thanks every one. It turned out fine.

Posted by
chipwillis
Feb 23, 2008 9:17am PDT
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chipwillis
 

I tried all of the above, 600 dpi png photoshop cs3 Indesign etc and ALL of the type looked terrible, jagged edges

Posted by
Vercingtorix
Mar 8, 2008 12:58pm PDT
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Vercingtorix
 

Tony—

I’ve experimented with the ID export modes, and so far see the best text results in the JPGS created directly in ID. I will experiment a little more with the PNG step. But I will wait to get the actual book before reaching final conclusions. I can say the text looks terrible in the preview of the book and then certainly in the preview download PDF from the Blurb site; the pages done in ID and exported as JPGs are much worse than the text composed in booksmart. What that means in the final printed product, I won’t know til Ihave the book.

But here is the main point I would like to ask you from your experiences with Blurb: Isn’t it safe to say that what you see in your PS file is more or less what you will see in print, regardless of how it looks in acrobat or booksmart or any of the preview modes associated with Blurb?

If it looks good in Photoshop, it’s going to look good in the printed version.

Would you agree with this sentiment?

Posted by
seanieblue
Mar 11, 2008 4:58am PDT
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seanieblue
 

Like you, along with your observations, and the words you described about ID, JPGs and all that, all is accurate.

Yes, the final print turns out nicely for me. Sometimes I could not understand why some people say otherwise. But I would think that they worry too much “without” knowing the real facts – without seeing the final print (best if they print “proof” book, then they can decide what needs to be done BASED on what they saw.) I cannot say for many people with their situation, but I works well on my case. I suspect that it works well for Tony, you and myself and few others as well.

On a final note, thanks for sharing with your observation, and your words is just that – accurate description. Let us know what you have learned about your final book output. So that it helps other concerned participants who use ID or Photoshop apps AND the eventual output – final print book.

Posted by
brianbonitz
Mar 12, 2008 1:57am PDT
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brianbonitz
 

Sorry for not updating sooner!

 

Got the books and they look fantastic, even through the loupe. Professional designers have looked at the product and claimed there is NO difference between the text degradation from ID files or booksmart layout. i think there is a very, very slight difference, and this is especially evident in any test 12pt or smaller and also especially in text that is serif (such as Times Roman, or any font that has "hands" and "feet"). If you use a font that is san serif at 12pt, especially dark against a light background, you will be absolutely fine!

 Do not worry about how terrible your "preview" looks on the Blurb pages; just check your final product. I’ve already ordered a dozen books, and the impact has been utterly astonishing.

Posted by
seanieblue
Apr 21, 2008 11:31pm PDT
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seanieblue
 

Hey seanieblue,

Thank you for sharing with us about your wonderful book project – that you created it in ID (aka as Adobe InDesign app). In itself with your final product you have experienced and witnessed this yourself, thank you for sharing it with us – especially that helps for “concerned” bookmakers about “preview” or proof book.

I am pretty sure that Blurb staff also appreciate your experience as well, so this should clear up some concerns.

Happy blurbbing,
Brian

Posted by
brianbonitz
Apr 22, 2008 12:29am PDT
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brianbonitz
 

I’ve been following this thread and I’m still a bit unsure. I’ve printed a book using the BookSmart template and text. That book came out beautifully! Now I’m updating that book and have done text layouts in ID. I’m using Garamond (serif) 11pt type with and importing as highest quality 300 dpi JPG. I see a big difference between type set within BookSmart and my imported JPG (I’m comparing the exact same text). This difference is still easily visible when I soft proof on my desktop printer. Do you think it will still print better in book form… or is the soft proof on my desktop a good indicator of the final outcome.

Thanks for the help and

Posted by
dnborris
May 20, 2008 3:40pm PDT
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dnborris
 

Hi dnborris,

As for font type used in your book with Garamond – size 11 should be fine. As long as it is a bit bigger than font size 8. Less than font size 8 IS NOT recommend.

As for soft proof concept, this just give you a better idea how your output (images) should look like on printed book. Soft proof is mostly focused on side of color management related, as to see how the image looks, whether if the image is too dark, nor too light. Although, soft proof itself is not 100 percent accuracy. It gets almost as 85 to 90 percent. It is very rare for people to get this 100 percent accuracy – but it is vary rare, though.

Uhm, related to soft proof workflow process, I didn’t see you had mentioned that IF you have calibrated device for your computer monitor. If you haven’t done this so, or if you didn’t have one, perhaps that you want to take a look at calibrated device (that also comes with bundled software – usually a driver of device to work with computer to make this device works with computer and monitor) – that you might want to consider to buy one. It is just that it depends on how you do the book project. If you do just for fun as hobby, it might be not an ideal. But if you might do the book project often, then it is a good time for you to consider a minor investment in calibrated color device for monitor.

The idea of working with calibrated monitor device, and if do the right way and update the monitor profile regularly, then your book workflow right from beginning – especially with InDesign (or Photoshop). Having calibrated monitor taken care of regularly, this itself save you lot of time, money and reduce higher chance of having some sorta of problem with color cast or some other possible problem arise. It varies from project A to B to C.

The idea of working with calibrated monitor device, soft proof and similar techniques, the dividend pays nicely and handsomely in time.

To learn more about color management, color profile and calibrated device topics, you are encouraged to learn more about these topics – feel free to conduct search queries on these topic. There are pretty good discussions all over at Blurb Forum lately.

If you need some further help or assistance about those stuff, just come back in and ask for us to help you. You have come to the right place! :)

Hope that helps, no?

Cheers,
Brian
[A passionate Blurb customer]

Posted by
brianbonitz
May 20, 2008 6:40pm PDT
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brianbonitz
 

Thanks Brian.
I’m a professional photographer and my monitor is calibrated, though I’m only using a desktop printer for this test… and I’m only proofing type, not images. Sounds like you and Seanieblue agree that even though imported jpg type may look bad on screen, it prints just fine in the book (although Seanieblue mentioned that his type was san-serif). I trust your expertise and only have this one nagging doubt because when I did print out the imported type page it looked pretty bad: light and broken up. When examined through a lupe the desktop printout of BookSmart looks great, while the JPG printout has gaps. So, my fear is that because it looks bad on my desktop printer it will look bad in the final book. Obviously if that’s the case I’ll stick to designing within BookSmart. By the way, I was really drawn to designing in ID because BookSmart doesn’t offer fully justified paragraphs.
I really appreciate your opinion and hope you might be able to give me a little clarification. Of course I could just spend the money and find out! ;)
thanks,
Dan

Posted by
dnborris
May 20, 2008 8:05pm PDT
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dnborris
 

Hi Dan,

Back few months ago, like you, I was concerned about “jazzy” or “fuzzy” look appeared in BookSmart. I went ahead to order book, and was pleased with the printed book.

However, if you had some doubt and have some concerns, may I suggest that you want to consider to run test book with only twenty (20) pages. That way, you have a better idea how the printed book looks. I am pretty sure that you know how helpful test or proof photos works; that applies the same analogy with test or proof book.

At the same time, few weeks ago, I had jotted down on piece of paper somewhere about some kind of brilliant technique that I found somewhere on the Internet. I am not able to find this paper now – as I looked for this for few days now. I should mention that I am in the middle of move to Toronto from New York City. After I get myself settled in Toronto, I’d definitely want to do a research on that brilliant solution. I want to run a test book on that one, and by the time when I unpack one of those boxes, I’d definitely put that paper next to my computer. [I just wrote this Things to do note to remind myself about that “lost” paper].

Have you tried this venue with .PNG file yet? You might want to do some little experiment and see what happens. Perhaps that you want to a page or two of PNG imported file, and compare those two pages of imported JPG files on that test/proof book. It is totally up to you, Dan.

Anyway, I am glad to know that you are familiar with calibration process and related topic for that matter. I wasn’t sure, but thought I’d want to mention this away anyway. I know that often help others with some insight.

Anyway, if you have some question or anything, feel free to come back in and ask for some help. I am glad that I can be of some help for you, Dan.

Regards,
Brian
[A passionate Blurb customer]

Posted by
brianbonitz
May 20, 2008 8:27pm PDT
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brianbonitz
 

... A little specific clarification and addition to my post just now. When I typed …”I was concerned about “jazzy” and fuzzy”... I did the work in InDesign CS3, then exported PDFs into Photoshop CS3. Then rasterize the PDF conversion into high quality JPG files, then imported Photoshop high-grade JPG files into BookSmart.

Additionally, after I get myself settled in Toronto, I’d want to do some experiments with my two books currently under development with InDesign.. same procedure exporting PDF into Photoshop, and then I’ll do some experiments with PNG and JPG files and run a test proof book and see what happens.

Thanks in advance,
Brian
[A passionate Blurb customer]

Posted by
brianbonitz
May 20, 2008 8:33pm PDT
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brianbonitz
 

Hi Everyone, I thought that you might be interested on my experiences with my first book. I probably did everything wrong when building my book and received a superb book. I have a blog that serves as my weekly rant with the contents also being published in a small weekly paper along with my photos. When I decided to do a book I went with the 10 X 8 format and 120 pages. In this book I have 60 photos that were post processed in photoshop and on the facing page I have text describing the photos. Now the interesting part is the fact that I lifted the text that was in full Italics from my blog and then upon pasting it into my blurb book, I converted the text  to Papyrus.

Now I have to tell you that I have been a lover of books all my life and have bookcases full of them. Upon receiving my blurb book I closely examined the book and other that 6 photos that I felt needed to be lightened (I have corrected this in my second revised copy) I loved the results. The Paparus text with its arty look I love although my daughter ( a photo journalism student) laughed at me and tried to change my mind on using Paparus fonts at the time I was doing the book, now grudgingly admits it looks good. Bottom line is  – don’t read to much into what you are seeing on your computer screen as far as the text goes, the finished book compares very much with any of the books in my library. 

Jerry

Posted by
VE6AB
May 21, 2008 5:43am PDT
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VE6AB
 

Hello,

I have just received my book. I created it using InDesign templates set to the full bleed size. I exported my pages at 300dpi and imported them into booksmart.

On screen and when proofed from InDesign the images were fine. In the book, many of them are lower quality (more noise) than seen on screen, and have jagged edges along diagonal lines and curves. This becomes more noticable the bigger the image.

Please help me understand why this has happened and whether it can be fixed. I have spent £28 on a product which is not up to the standard I expected and am unable to move forward on issuing more copies if this is the best quality available.

Many thanks

alex

Posted by
alexsimmons
Dec 2, 2008 4:12am PDT
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alexsimmons
 

A Blurb paper (see below) recommends when using InDesign that the way of getting the best quality page images in BookSmart is to go InDesign—-> High Qulity PDF—-> Photoshop—-> JPEG—-> BookSmart

http://blog.blurb.com/index.php/2007/05/03/how-to-import-your-custom-design-into-booksmart/

 In  another blog Blurb have said of the Indesign——> JPEG—-> BookSMart  route

        The following directions are no longer recommended or supported by Blurb, as we have
         seen inconsistent printed results with JPGs that have been exported directly from
         InDesign using this method. Because text-intensive designs are particularly likely to be
         impacted, to ensure your custom designs print optimally and that custom text is cleanly
        reproduced, please follow
these directions instead.

 

 

 I have found when creating pages in Photoshop I get better (less jaggie) results for small text and diagonal lines by going via PNG rather than JPEG. PNG using a lossless compresion technique. If you did a search of the forums for PNG you would find a number of discussions on this.

.......Tony

Posted by
tfrankland
Dec 2, 2008 6:04am PDT
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tfrankland
 

SOS. Please help.

I’ve spent the last two hours trying to do this in the way Blurb has specified and the problem is that some of the images on my pages disappear and some do not once I get em into Ps from the PDF.

 I exported from CS3 InDesign to a PDF (unchecked the box "compress line art and text" per the blurb how-to). Then opened that PDF in CS3 Photoshop. 45 pages popped up (ugh). And some were missing photos and some were not but the text was all there. 

Any idea what’s going on? 

Posted by
momentumNY
Mar 4, 2009 2:08pm PDT
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momentumNY