Book Design and Imaging

Locked Softcover standard books moved to Indigo press

Not to get lost in all of the hub bub around the big 1.9 release, but we’ve made a significant change in our product line in concert with our new software.  As many of you know, in the past when you purchased softcover and hardcover standard (8×10 or 10×8) books, the pages were printed on different devices.  I’m really pleased to say that we have now standardized our book pages in this size on the Indigo press so you’ll be getting the great transparent ink output regardless of the binding type.

Best,

—bw 

Posted by
bruce
Oct 11, 2007 10:55am PDT
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bruce Icon_staff
 

Uhhh.. that’s good news. But, does that mean the book I just published a couple days ago in 1.8 will NOT being getting the "great transparent ink output" in softcover?

What do I do if already have a published 1.8 book in your store from a couple days ago but want to make sure softcover looks as good as hardcover? Are you saying I’d have to start over?

Posted by
skiphunt
Oct 11, 2007 11:05am PDT
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skiphunt
 

Don’t have to start over but your books placed earlier will indeed be printed on our legacy method.  All of your future books will seamlessly be printed using the new method.

And you don’t have to move to 1.9 for this change.  All standard soft cover books, regardless of software version, are now being printed on Indigo.

—bw 

Posted by
bruce
Oct 11, 2007 11:12am PDT
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Bruce, that’s really good news. But to clarify by "books placed earlier" I hope you meant "book orders place earlier". I hope I don’t have to reload my books to get the the Indigo printing.

Posted by
lcarreira
Oct 11, 2007 11:24am PDT
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lcarreira
 

Well then… if I DON’T want the book I JUST  published a couple of days ago to be perpetually printed on your "legacy" printers… what am I supposed to do? Delete the book? That means I would have to start over, ie. reupload and buy another copy of what I just completed?

Posted by
skiphunt
Oct 11, 2007 11:25am PDT
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skiphunt
 

Ahhh!!! if you mean book’s already ordered before today that’s no sweat. I only ordered one of each as a test. The only two client orders I’ve got so far ordered hardcover. So… just to clarify… if I or anyone else orders a softcover of the book I produced in 1.8 and published a couple days ago.. will the softcovers be printed on indigo? Or legacy?

Posted by
skiphunt
Oct 11, 2007 11:28am PDT
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skiphunt
 

Yes, sorry for any confusion. I meant "orders placed earlier" regardless of software version. The next order you place for your softcover standard book will be printed on the Indigo.

—bw 

Posted by
bruce
Oct 11, 2007 11:29am PDT
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bruce Icon_staff
 

Whew!! That’s good news. :-) Thanks for the clarification.

Posted by
skiphunt
Oct 11, 2007 11:30am PDT
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skiphunt
 

wow, that’s exciting news.
So any softcover books printed after today will be on the new printers? I’m supposed to ups my messed up books back today, and I want to find out if the replacements will be on the new printer or the old.

Maybe now I can rave about the beautiful blurb books like all the lucky large hardcover customers?

Posted by
brokendreams
Oct 11, 2007 11:41am PDT
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brokendreams
 

"After today?" Looks like I just got 3 more sales today and one was a softcover. Will that softcover be printed on Indigo since it was ordered today?

 Does that go for orders originating in Europe or anywhere outside of the U.S. as well? 

Posted by
skiphunt
Oct 11, 2007 11:44am PDT
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skiphunt
 

oh nevermind. I just reread the update.
So only 8×10 / 10×8 softcovers will be printed on the Indigo press.
The "classic square 7×7" softcovers and hardcovers will still be printed on the old yucky iGen presses right..

well.. i did get to enjoy a brilliant flash of hope . if only for a second.

Posted by
brokendreams
Oct 11, 2007 12:05pm PDT
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brokendreams
 

Oh… I made the same mistake…  Dang. What a let down. The price point is so great on the 7×7 size.. pitty they didn’t get the upgrade to indigo too. :-(

Posted by
skiphunt
Oct 11, 2007 12:10pm PDT
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skiphunt
 

It’s worldwide and it is effective on orders placed after 10AM PDT yesterday.

—bw 

Posted by
bruce
Oct 11, 2007 12:15pm PDT
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Any chance of this move to indigo will migrate to the 7×7 size too? Or, do I need to consider trashing my only 7×7 product and only produce the larger sizes?

Posted by
skiphunt
Oct 11, 2007 12:23pm PDT
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skiphunt
 

Hi Skip, we optimized the 7×7 product for entry-level pricing but we know that professionals and prosumers are using the product more and more.  We’re looking at various printing options for release in 2008.

At the same time the iGen continues to improve the quality of their output and we are working with them to get the best product possible in 7×7 on an ongoing basis.

—bw 

Posted by
bruce
Oct 11, 2007 12:53pm PDT
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so this means that I need to redo my test book and sort of start over, right?

the test book tested for lightness/darkness, and should have tested for “color” of the B&W images. I imagine both of those might change? Which is good if the B&W comes out less green and doesn’t shift with time.

Thanks
Scott

Posted by
scottgraham
Oct 12, 2007 5:49am PDT
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scottgraham
 

So Bruce, is this "colors shifting with time" a fact? Even if the printing and color are acceptable upon deliverery… they will shift within days? Seriously? The color in your 7×7 books is going to begin shifting as soon as I get it… for days to come? If true, what do they look like after a year of shifting daily? Do they eventually settle or cure and stop shifting? Or do they just continue until they turn as yellow as an old newspaper?

I think I’m getting ill and wondering why I paid $50 for 2 color-shifting, sub-par printed, Xerox’d books? And I even paid $12 for the pleasure of having two thin 20-page color-shifting-literary-mood-stones delivered? This is considered optimized? Frankly, doesn’t seem that "optimal" to me. And, why is the shipping so high on what should only amount to around a pound of freight?

Posted by
skiphunt
Oct 12, 2007 6:07am PDT
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skiphunt
 

I think this question should go to Scott.  I have not seen a color shift on any of our products that occurs after printing. 

There are plenty of other discussions about shipping on this forum so I’m not going to wade into that one. 

—bw 

Posted by
bruce
Oct 12, 2007 7:24am PDT
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Ok. Will look into the forums for more on shipping. At first, the impression of the rate appears as if it’s a gouge. On the other hand, if the markup in printing was shifted to the book cost.. that might appear as too steep a price for a unit. Maybe if the shipping was just re-labled as "Shipping and Handling"? The psychology of that phrasing would read better to me and seem less like a "gouge".

I see there are several outfits doing this 7×7 book and have been for awhile. So if there was any real problem with major color shifts… it seems like the product wouldn’t be as widely available. Or, maybe the user referring to color shifts is just speaking of how the images look on their computer as opposed to the book… and not really a daily shift as implied?

Also, if an image is simply grey scale instead of a desaturated RGB.. would there still be some tint and or shift in the print? 

Posted by
skiphunt
Oct 12, 2007 8:06am PDT
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skiphunt
 

Or, maybe this "shift" referred to has more to do with looking at a product in different light sources, ie. flourescent as opposed to daylight, etc.? Of course you know.. that would be completely normal and not a product flaw.

Posted by
skiphunt
Oct 12, 2007 8:08am PDT
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skiphunt
 

Could you please explain what the difference is between the (top the line?) Indigo press and the apparently not too well regarded iGen. I think the 7×7 books are just great for many projects and it is my opinion that they should be printed with the best available method. Or perhaps there is not much of a difference.
Thanks Bruce and kudos for 1.9.

Posted by
efontu
Oct 12, 2007 9:00am PDT
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efontu
 

Scott here

sorry for the lack of clarity—-first of all, even in a color managed environment monitors, printers, etc don’t match exactly. Second I am doing only B&W and even a LITTLE green looks green. I imagine that in a color image one wouldn’t even notice as it would be very subtle. Thirdly, the interior of the book goes from greenish (scientific description heh what :) to very nearly (or completely) neutral with time, rather than vice versa. The cover goes from perfect to VERY SLIGHTLY reddish is the higher tones. The cover becomes “not objectonable” I am told. This is all with 2 day shipping and then a wait of maybe 5-7 days. So if we forbid fast shipping to an online buyer…

Anyway, I am pretty happy after time. BUT I’d hate to have someone order a book on line and find it green before they “waited a while”.

and a couple of finallies: a friend and print customer (I do giclees for other artists) says that he finds it hard to imagine me being happy with someone else’s print of one of my images :)

No, it was not the different lighting; first thing that I checked. The ‘greeness’ is objectionable indoors (warm light) and worse outdoors, initially. Not bad later.

And on grayscale vs desat RGB: it shouldn’t make any difference in theory, and doesn’t for sure on an Epson. A color value is a color value.

and my question, with less confusion, still stands: is it safe to presume that the book look will change with press change? almost has to; I really am being foolish to ask. Was going to do a neutral/warm/warmer test book next, but will also include light/normal/darker test again.

Blurb works so well that I hope to be able to make it work for me too.

Someone mentioned half toning and print quality, etc in another thread: the answer that said of course you get that as you do in all press prints and it is normal, to be expected, and still looks fine was right on. I think that the Blurb image quality is quite good.

Thanks
Scott

Posted by
scottgraham
Oct 12, 2007 9:39am PDT
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scottgraham