7X7 printing
I just recieved my second order. My 8X10 books were excellent like the first order but my 7X7, a book I made as a promotional piece, was not satisfactory. I shoot motorcycles. the images along straight lines were jagged, almost pixelated. I used some of the same images that I used in the 8X10 books where they printed perfectly. Can yo tell me what might have gone wrong. I really wanted to use the small less expensive book as a portfolio. Please help me Scooter
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Hi Grubb, I think you may be seeing the difference between our ink-based printing and our toner-based printing, We offer the latter as an entry-level priced product and it’s a great value at the price point. Sounds like you may want to stay with the standard and large-format product, which are all ink-based printing. Best, —bw
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Bruce, As someone who just ordered a 7×7 photo book, your post concerns me. This is the first time I’ve seen anywhere that the 7×7 book is done with a different process than the rest of the books. (I just checked, and there are no FAQ hits for "toner" or "ink-based", and nothing about that under several relevant FAQ hits on "printing".) And I wouldn’t care, except you just said that it was a lesser process, a great value but not something that you would use if you care about quality of results. Given that there is no easy way to convert a book that is already made from one size format to another, shouldn’t it say something about that right in Booksmart when you are deciding what size book to make? I just got the email that my book has shipped, so I’ll try to keep from freaking out until I actually see the book. It looked so good on the screen and I was really happy with it. Now, instead of excitement to see the product, I’m really apprehensive. I was going to order six more for Christmas gifts if this one looked good. Now I need to make contingency plans for gifts for all those people. Steve
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Unfortunately, a lot has been written about the processes used to print the books and the covers (iGen3 from Xerox, and HP 5000 Indigo) for the various sizes. What is unfortunate is that a lot of the information is buried in threads as this one will be if Bruce actually gives you the information or point you to the right thread. I would not panic the "toner" process is really quite good it’s just not the same as the Indigo. As for the jagged images referred to by Grubb it might be due to the toner process but also might be do to the way the input file was treated between the two printers.
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Steve, we have lots of extremely satisfied customers that use our 7×7 product. My main point here is that there is a difference and it may have contributed to the specific issue that Scooter posted (motorcycles and straight lines). A FAQ on this would not really adequately address the issue as it’s not cut and dried..so this venue is a better place for discussion where we can all weigh in on our experiences. Let us know how your books look once they arrive. Best, —bw
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I still don’t understand how the jagged edges on the straight lines of the motorcycles could be a printer problem. Many things have straight lines and I assume that they would all have a problem with the different printer. If that was the case no one would make a book using the iGen3 process. I would really like to use the 7X7 book but it creates a product that is inferior to the HP. I was hoping that it was something that I did and could fix but as it stands the books I ordered are not usable. Scooter
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Hey Scooter, I said "may have"..I don’t know if it is the issue or not. I think at this point it’s best to make a support request and have the technical folks take a look at what you are seeing to determine if it’s a defect in workmanship or not. —bw
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Bruce, thanks for your reply. As I said, I’ll try not to flip out if it isn’t warranted, (especially in a forum where you can’t edit or erase your posts.) My wife and I have a lot of effort invested in this book, is all, so I’m nervous. The tracker says we should have the package on Friday, and then we’ll see how it looks. I’ll let you know. Has anyone made up a proof book that has a bunch of pictures of different dynamic ranges, some color corrected for the press, some raw from the camera, a few test patterns to check crispness, and that sort of thing? Thanks, Steve
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Bruce thanks for attention in the forum … I iwll make that inquiry with tech and even return one of the books for their review if necessary. thanks again Scooter
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Bruce, Turns out I’m one of the people who isn’t satisfied with the toner process used in the 7×7. I’ve posted my feedback on the book we got today, and honestly, I expected more. Consider it a win for your software folks – they set the expectations bar very high with how things look on the screen, and the laser printer just doesn’t keep up.
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What a shock to discover this thread. I put together a 7×7 book based on the personal endorsement of a friend who has done the larger format books. I used the smaller format because it fit better with the photographs I was using and make a nicer size for Christmas gifts…but to learn after I ordered my sample book that a different process is used for the 7×7 format, I am very disappointed. I’ve read some of the other threads on this topic and now I wonder if I will be able to use the book at all. Wondering if Steve got his order and how he felt about it. Mine ships later this week and I have my fingers crossed. Bob
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How upsetting to find this thread AFTER making the 7×7 book, which by the way took quite a bit of effort and a considerable amount of time to do. Seems this fact on the difference used in printing a 7X7 should have at least been hightlighted or in BOLD for all to see.
Had I had known I would have made and ordered the larger size myself!
Hopefully Steve will get back to this thread and let us all know how he feels about his book….thankfully I did not order more than one.
Theresa~
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Hi all, My wife just got her shipment of cookbooks. It’s a compilation of our favorite recipes. She spent hours typing them in and gathering pics from Flickr and other sites. She’s a great designer, and puts together a smart, stylish book. This one is no exception. We bought several soft bound and more hardbound for Xmas presents. They’re gorgeous!. No stripes. No bad binding. Esentially identical color from soft to hard covers. Great rendition of pics and backgrounds inside … better than we expected from our first 7X7 book. So, all you who are worried about the 7X7, wait til you get yours.
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Thank you for sharing that info with us!! Made me feel 100% better about choosing the 7X7~
Theresa~
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I also just wanted to share a positive experience with the 7×7 softcover format. I had been panicking because I’d read these negative posts after I’d ordered my books (a photo book of pictures from our baby’s first year). Anyway I didn’t need to worry. The printing was very good, coloured backgrounds came out fine, and the beautiful glossy covers were particularly great- they look just like real books, which is very exciting. Perhaps for photographers who are extremely fussy about quality the larger books might be better, but for most of us, I think the 7×7 is just fine, and really good value.
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I am a professional photographer and have ordered over 20 different books through Blurb. I use them for my parent books for weddings I shoot. I design each page in Photoshop and always have the 8×10 books printed. So far, (with the exception of dust jacket issues) I have been happy with the results, but recently printed a 7×7 for a client. I was shocked at the difference in photo quality and clarity. It was clearly inferior to the 8×10 books. I was embarrassed to even have my name on this one. No one made me aware that a different process was being used to print the smaller books, and I would not have ordered this size if I had known that. The bride’s professional album was a 10×10 so the square format of 7×7 allowed me to use a lot of the collage pages I had already created. What a huge disappointment this was!
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Count me among those dissatisfied with the 7×7 photo book. After seeing a friend’s album (8×10) I was very excited to make my own photo book. I spent a lot of time trying to get the pics just right, and after all of my effort I am really pretty disappointed with the results. I, too, was completely unaware of the different process used in making the 7×7 book, and I would not have wasted my time of money if I had known this.
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i got my 7×7 book and now have revised the book to more pages – i do art with vibrant colors and the books printing was excellent – i hope that continues – i had no lines whatsoever- olan
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Ugh. I am a professional photog and just created and ordered three books. I sent out an announcement to a huge list of family and friends. Now very apprehensive about the quality of my 7×7 soft covers and thinking I should send a follow-up note to my email list warning them not to order these books until I’ve had the opportunity to review the product, myself. I don’t know which would be more embarassing. Sending such an email or allowing people to possibly purchase a sub par product (rendering them highly unlikely to ever purchase another Blurb book in the future). Guess I should probably send that email.
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I’ve now scoured the forums and am less apprehensive and far more hopeful about my books. I do understand that these are professionally bound bookstore quality volumes and not bound photographs. A professionally bound book of professionally printed photographs would rock the casbah, but would be wildly expensive. It’s just not done for the commercial market. I get that. So, looking forward to my books and holding off on that email. Besides, since our forum posts link back to our profile page, friends, family, and random shoppers will all see my concerns anyhow. Will be sure to follow up with a review of the quality upon receipt of my order. Can’t wait. Fingers crossed! And tickled pink that my Venice volume was selected as a Staff Pick. Grazie mille!!
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I had my first 2 books printed right before the holiday to give as a gift and check out the quality to sell to clients. I received the 7×7 format books and have these comments. I was dissappointed in what I received. The basic quality was good but ALL the images were VERY dark. I am an artist and these are reproductions of my work so I am not pleased. I checked out the quality of images by printing them out before sending to blurb and they all looked good. Now, I hear the different process in printing the 7×7 and I suppose that that is the problem? Is there any way to improve the dark//light result in the 7×7? I was planning on purchasing many my books but cannot sell this to customers or make this available to the public. Do I have to go to a larger format to get the quality?? Now, I am afraid to spend more and be unhappy.
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Add me to the list of those disappointed with the 7×7 books. I had previously ordered a large format hardcover and was ecstatic with the print quality. The print quality was better than any other on-demand book I have seen. On the other hand, the print quality of the 7×7 softcover books that I received yesterday are quite poor in my opinion: blotchy skin colors, colors are off, and tones are poor. Until Blurb improves the print quality of the 7×7 books, I won’t be ordering anymore. Unfortunately, I really like the size and square shape of the books for giving away to family and friends.
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I just received my first ever Blurb book—a 7×7" format. I have yet to publish my 8×10" book, so I can’t compare. Generally, I was pleased with the way the book looked—the cover was very nice, and most of the images looked good. These happen to be reproductions of miniature paintings, and I compared them very, very carefully with the originals, and also with a Mac/Apple book that I had printed previously. The images in the Blurb book had accurate color, compared to the originals, but several of them were a bit light—almost as though they were not quite fully saturated, or just a hair overexposed. The color of the originals is very rich, and even though the images are tiny, the detail is sharp. I’m afraid the images in the Apple book were closer.—both in richness and in clarity. The iamges in the Blurb book were just a tiny bit softer than the originals, or the reproductions in the Mac book. By a hair. But a hair is a hair! The customer service person seemed to think my monitor might not be calibrated to their printers—didn’t say anything about the printing difference. But my issue wasn’t a color difference. I did know about the difference in printing—from reading about it in the forum—but had to see my first book for myself. I suppose I could re-create this book as an 8×10, but the square format is just more appropriate for the size and nature of the paintings. The book is very nice in every other way—just not quite as perfect as I’d hoped. I reserve judgment for the 8×10.
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it’s interesting that another artist who published a 7×7" book found the reproductions too dark, whereas the ones in my book with which I was not wholly satisfied were on the light side. And then there was that marginal loss of clarity, overall. At least now I know it was nothing I did, nothing wrong with my digital images.
(We artists are exceptionally picky, I know that! ) Since we’re having this discussion—what IS the difference in the toner-based process? Could someone explain—briefly?
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Re: Toner-based printing vs. Ink-based—I just answered my own question with a quick google. Toner-based devices use a powder which they fuse to the paper to make an image. This is the process also used in copiers. I think this probably does explain the difference in quality between the 7×7 and the 8×10 format books. For some kinds of images, the toner-based printing will be just tine. I think it all depends on how you intend to use your book.
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Benefit vs Risk.
I find it an unbelievable policy that the risk of a poor quality print be deemed not as important to the unwitting customer as the benefit of price. In each and every case above, the customer has put much effort into taking pictures as well as painstaking construction and review. This effort and commitment has been ignored in this Blurb Risk vs Benefit policy. Ignoring what I put into this piece is a slap in the face. OUCH. These 7×7’s should be near free.
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I’ve also had a less than satisfying experience with the 7×7 format, which i chose not because of any price issue, but because the square format suits my photography best. but, the worst part of my experience so far isn’t that the book looked far inferior from how it appeared in Booksmart, but the fact that i’ve twice emailed Blurb about this and as yet, two weeks later, have received no reply.
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Hi loubedlam, You should have gotten a response from us by now. We did a quick search and discovered you entered your email address correctly, which is why you didn’t get our earlier replies. You should be fine now. – Kathy
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I recieved my 7×7 yesterday and was all in all v.pleased.. see here.. http://forums.blurb.com/forums/3/topics/2255#posts-10363
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Are the 7×7 books (softcover and/or hardcover) still printed with the "toner" method instead of "ink based" Apple
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Yep, the 7×7 books are printed using an iGen3 digital press. If you are a member of our just-announced B3 program you will have an option of getting Indigo “ink-based” 7×7’s via our Custom Workflow feature.
—bw
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Just wanted to say that I received my first 7×7 book and… I am in love with my book. (pats self on back). It looks great, and just as I expected. My pictures (which were all of good quality) all looked great. Not too dark, or light, or too saturated, like folks have reported. 5 Stars for Blurb.com Can’t wait to do it again, and again, and again….I hope I stay this satisfied in the future. —-HJ
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I hadn’t read anything about different printers being used for different size books. I just received my first book, a 7X7 photo book. The layouts look great on the computer, but frankly the book quality is un acceptable. The photos are rather dark and muddy, the backrounds have horizontal lines running through them and the color is off throughout thebook. Definitely not bookstore quality. My problem with this book project is that it doesn’t fit well in a rectangular format, so I really need to work with the square format. don’t know what I’ll do now.
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I ordered my first 7×7 book to proof my contrast & colors, and the quality was acceptable, though I hoped the photos would improve with som contrast tweaking. I especially was concerned about the muddy quality of the cover. When I received my 2nd copy of the book, with only 8 out of 116 pages changed, I was shocked by how poor the quality of the entire book was in comparison with the first print. That’s what led me to this thread. Blurb customer service sent me a return label and is printing me a replacement copy, but after reading this info here I’m now in the process of re-doing my book from scratch to fit the ink-based 10×8 books. Had I known it was toner-based I would have balked from the start. No way are you going to get professional quality results from that. Even if the replacement copy is back up to standard, I can’t take chances with hit or miss on an order of 100 copies.
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The people that are getting quality results aren’t getting lucky, they are doing something right all the way through their workflow. Those getting shabby quality have to first look at their own process. It’s not a random universe kind of thing that some are good quality and others aren’t.
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Received the 10×8 version today – very easy to notice the differences and improvement in quality. Same photos, same process. Even though it brings up the cost per book by $10, I’ll choose this option from the start for future projects.
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I am massively dissapointed in learning about the printer difference. This information should definitely be made more obvious to us. Having just desgined a 64 page 7×7 book, I am now having to use a different company to print my book at 3 times the cost. Very dissapointing indeed.
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Achushia, I can tell you that we create many 7×7 books everyday with very satisfied customers. To most of our users the differences between our products is minimal but if you are looking for the best possible on-demand quality I do suggest you stay with our standard and large format products.
Also, with our B3 program we do offer 7×7 books printed on the Indigo press. This program is currently in closed beta but you can request information and get on the waiting list here .
Best,
—bw
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Thanks Bruce – i have now signed up :)
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I just received my first book; a 7×7. Everything ok except for the disgusting blue skies … dirty, gritty etc. Not visible on the photo screen at 100%. Seems I picked the wrong book size then … I may try a size bigger on the different printer. I have done a lot of searching on the forums but there seems little "organised" information on different printers, sharpening etc. Mattie
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wow.. brutal, this is horrible news.. that the 7X7s use inferior printing techniques. i just finished laying out a 245 photo page book that will be available for sale and print quality is VERY important to me. the photographs are small and square, and thus the 7X7 format is ideal. perhaps i will order just one to test..and if the quality is horrible, re-do the book in a less-interesting 10X8 size…
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Hi Taylor, if you would like 7×7 books printed on Indigo press you should sign up for the Blurb B3 program here. You’ll pay a bit more than for the standard, toner-based printer product but you’ll get the exact same printing quality as our standard and large format books.
Be sure and use the “Custom Workflow” product to get Indigo printing.
Best,
—bw
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I just got a 7×7 book printed through B3’s Custom Workflow program and the difference was tremendous compared to the identical book with the regular workflow. The blotchy skin, color casts, and poor tones were all gone. I will be printing all of my books through the B3 program from now on! Bruce, is there a ballpark figure on how much it will cost annually to continue with the B3 program once the charter memberships run out at the end of the year? $50-100? $100-200?
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The program details in 2009 are not yet set…but you can be sure that we are working hard to make the program the best value in the business! Best, —bw
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