Paper Quality
I’ve just received my first book back and overall, quite pleased. Shipping, binding, and software, all excellent.
However I’m underwhelmed with the way the photos have turned out due mainly I think to the paper quality. I can see many small white dots on, especially the darker areas under close inspection, and the paper seems very thin and not much better than a magazine.
I’m sure that a LOT of amateur photographers would be willing to pay more for a few more options on better quality papers than the only option offered now. This would likely show our photos more like a fine art photography book does, which is what many of us are wanting.
If any Blurberati are reading the forums, can you please give us your intentions/views on this issue of offering better photo print/paper quality. (Don’t worry too much about the price, just give us some options. It’s the final quality we are after in this photo journal niche). I’m sure if you could improve this one factor, you would be King of the Hill!
‘
Thanks, Hamish
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Thanks for the comments Hamish…..we are looking at various options for new products and options for 2008 and appreciate the feedback. Best, —bw
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I was just looking online at the book by The Blurberati, “How to Make a Book”, and it says it is printed on ”* 80# coated, semi-matte paper, perfect for photography”. Are all Blurb books printed on this weight? Is that good? I didn’t see an option for paper anywhere in the process for a test book I’ve just uploaded.
I would also be interested in a higher quality, heavier weight paper for printing photography.
Thanks,
Louie
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Hi Louie, our 80# semi-gloss paper is very much the overwhelming standard for rich-content on-demand books and we feel it’s a great middle ground for both photo and text reproduction. We are always looking to improve our products though and stay tuned in 2008 for new products and options.
Best,
—bw
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Bruce, you say the paper is semi-gloss but Louie quotes fromyour web site where is says semi-matte and the HP ICC Profile recommended is the Indigo semi-matte. Where does the semi-gloss come from? .......Tony
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Bruce,
If you say paper is semi-gloss, while we know that Blurb publishes semi-matte quality, is that true?
If differs, please clarify if possible in writing. This to help us better understand. Also, if that is true, where is correct ICC print profile FOR semi-gloss to be reproduced in Photoshop CS3 or InDesign CS3.
TIA, Brian
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My mistake guys…my post should have said semi-matte.
—bw
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Bruce,
Thanks!
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can I choose the paper when I make the book, I prefer high quality paper.. and thin paper. I create a photo book in my publisher, the paper is good but the color just fine. So I want to make sure the quality of paper before I purchase
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We currently do not offer a choice in paper.
—bw
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Just back from Macworld and I was told that paper upgrade options might be available around the middle of the year. Here’s hoping…
For Bruce or anyone else from Blurb reading this, it would be nice to see you guys consider a paper vendor like GPA. Their 80# and 100# matte and gloss text has a much nicer feel to it. Just my .02
As for a previous poster asking about little white specs in the dark areas, this will happen on an Indigo when a blanket gets a little dirty after a lot of use and the ink doesn’t adhere. Basically an operator not keeping a close eye on things. In a busy shop it happens sometimes…
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Vivkong,
Perhaps that you want to submit a web submission form pertaining to feedback or suggestion with Blurb. Blurb team would love to hear something from you. You ARE encouraged to submit feedback/suggestion.
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I will be eagerly waiting for the middle of the year for paper options. Always hopeful. :-)
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I would be more than willing to shell out for a better quality / weight paper. I would also like the option of embossing on the cover, spine and back of a hardcover book. The dust cover is exceptional but embossing would add that last touch of professionalism tfor which I would be willing to pay . I have shown my latest book to several people all of whom have signed on to blurb. Great feedback on excellence and competitiveness of blurb. Dave
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I agree about the lack of paper quality. I just received my first book, and was very pleased with everything but the paper quality. It’s really quite a shame. Blurb touts this product as looking exactly like a professional photo book from a bookstore. But every single one of the dozens of photo books I own have much higher quality/heavier paper. The blurb paper just feels cheap. I had many projects in mind but I don’t plan to order again from Blurb unless they offer a better paper option.
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I just received my “test” book from Blurb and its pretty much what I expected. The quality of the printing is fine except for a couple pages that went dark. The hard cover doesn’t have a heavy quality feel to it. I can live with all that, but the paper feels far too lightweight for this kind of book. I suppose you get what you pay for and the cost was very reasonable, but I’d sure like the option of having a heavier, better quality paper.
I’ll be waiting for the rumored paper options later in the year for another “test”.
Cheers,
L
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Can someone please tell me what 80# equares to in gsm? I have had some books printed with another company, and they use 170gsm silk… the pages are lovely and heavy. I just wondered what 80# meant. Emma
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Hi Emma, 80# translates to 118 gsm.
Best,
—bw
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Many thanks for the prompt reply… ....off now to find some 118gsm paper to see how thick it is…. Emma :)
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I just got my book last week and I have to agree with the other comments regarding
paper quality and weight. I have printed books with Shutterfly and their paper is only slightly heavier but it has a slight "gloss" to it. This makes a big difference in the appearance of the photos.
My book is 13" x 11", 275 pages and it cost me about $139, including shipping. So first of all, there is no other service, hands down, that could have allowed me to make a photobook of this size for that price. I see that Bruce has explained that Blurb’s 80# semi-gloss paper is "the overwhelming standard for rich-content on-demand books" for both photo and text reproduction. So I guess I’m understanding that for a book of this size, this is the best paper option. A higher quality paper (thicker and with more gloss) may increase the price so much that I wouldn’t have made such a big book. Image quality was another issue for me. I didn’t feel that the color was as saturated as I expected and the photos appeared grainy (all photos appeared grey). The photos on the dust jacket were also darker than expected. So if I were making a smaller, 20-30 page book of photographic landscapes, seeing the paper quality and quality of the print, I would probably be more inclined to go with an online photographic service such as Shutterfly who could offer me higher quality book even though it may cost $10 or $20 more. Definitely would be great to see Blurb offer higher quality paper and better photographic printing. SP
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I agree with Sharon. I like the Booksmart software (despite it’s limitations), and the price is right, but the quality of paper, printing, and color is off. I was disappointed with things like the text becoming bitmapped, the low resolution (noticeable appearance of dots), and most especially the feel of the paper. I would rather it be magazine paper, as I feel this paper feels “digital”, and is obviously a bargain stock. While I like the pricing, and always cringe a bit when I choose custom logo for an extra $10, my books are for clients who are paying considerably more. If MY cost were to go up between 10%-35% for a better stock, I would make due, cough up the extra cash, and in the end avoid any bitterness at my expectations not being met.
I think Blurb is on the right track, and my hope is that things keep getting better. I really don’t have any doubt of that; it seems like everyone is aware of the issues and they’re working on it.
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I’m with Hamish 100%. I just received my 7×7 hard-cover darkroom themed book today. I am disappointed with the paper quality. I was just waiting to see the book so I can work on more books immediately. But now, I am looking for other companies to try unless blurb quickly gives us options on high quality papers. I want heavier paper, smoother and glossier. Or, whatever paper option that makes me feel I am browsing a real photography book from major art book publishers. I am sure You can do it. Yea, I was planning to send an annoucement to my 1000+ community to buy the book, but I wouldn’t now. I can’t have them get this paper quality. We’re kind of picky. So the ball is in your court blurb. Listen to your first customers or you lose them. Regards.
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I would also like to put my request/ 2cents in for requesting a choice of papers. I too would pay for the opition of having higher quality paper, I’ve used other services with higher quality paper, and it makes a big difference in the quality of the images on the page!
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Any late breaking rumours or innuendo as far as more paper choices? I’m just a mouse click away from ordering more books, but only if they can be printed on a heavier paper.
Thanks,
L
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Same comments here: just received my first book. Like the quality of the prints, but the paper is significantly thinner than the paper used by Shutterfly or Winkflash.
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Based on comments on other threads, I was wondering if the weight of paper used is different in Europe and America? My books printed in the Netherlands don’t seem to have particularly thin paper – certainly not "see through" like some people are complaining of….
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Hi Rob; This may be a mis-interpretation, but, you seem to intimate that you are not 100% happy with the paper-weight used in Europe! What, if anything, is wrong with it? I did a test 10×8 landscape, and full-on books in large-format, and I can’t detect a difference between the paper used in the two books – both – as far as I am concerned – are more than adequate for weight & quality! I’m actually quite "disturbed" by Tony’s commentary that Blurb are reviewing an uplift in paper-weight! For a "decent" sized book, I think it would actually result in too heavy a tomb! Anyhow, I guess we’ll see! Just goes to show that you can’t please all the folks all the time! Cheers; Lee
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Not at all Lee – I was saying that the paper in my books is perfectly adequate, and wondered if American printers use thinner paper. Some people have complained that they can see pictures from the other side of the paper, which I certainly can’t. That said, I’d not complain about a slight increase of paper weight – but you’re right that a big book would get rather unwieldy – my 418-pager is quite chunky as it is, and I wonder whether the binding process would cope with thicker pages with a book that size. Rob
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i’ve just received a book back from blurb and am disappointed with the quality of the paper and printing. it is definitely not professional grade. i put many hours into this book and now i’m faced with having to start all over with another provider who can give me professional quality printing. i had hoped to use blurb for the entire project but the proof version is just not good…color appearing washed out, sharpness lacking. sorely disappointed. tom
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I think a paper option would be wonderful! There was no problem with the way my images printed, only my text, but I would have liked a thicker paper stock.
I’m excited for more options to become available!
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We Want Paper options please! its to glossy for me…..my pictures seem to shine….i can almost see my reflection instead of the picture! Please give us good quality matte paper, nice and thick! Blurb rocks, its so user friendly, but you guys need to get to the bottom of this! I would so use you for all my weddings and other events. PS: I also would like to know if you will have larger size books anytime soon. im talking huge like National Geographics large book size. Because I cant find one print company that does it.
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Another vote for heavier paper!
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another LOUD vote for heavier paper. i just received my first Blurb book … ordered it as a sample to take to clients with the hope of offering it on my product list, but given the cheap quality of the paper, there’s no way i can offer this at the price i need to in order to recoup my work on their photos. add to that my disappointment with the Image Wrap cover … and i’m back to square one looking for a publisher for my hard cover books. :( don’t get me wrong … the quality of the printing is bang on, and the software is a dream … but the paper is just plain CHEAP.
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Scruffydog, saying roughly the same thing, in three posts, in the same forum, does not add anything to your case. Just gets people like me annoyed at wasting my time reading the same view pount over and over and over. Not that I’m disgreeing with your points (some of which I probably do) it’s just the repetition that is annoying. ......Tony
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sorry, Tony. i’m new to the forum. didn’t realize there were one-time-post rules. since my dissatisfaction with my book was on several distinct aspects and those aspects are covered under several subject headings, i considered it perfectly appropriate to add my experience in each specific threads. i can’t be assured that the same people are checking each thread … are they? it’s not like i copied and pasted the same post or anything like that. sorry to have annoyed you.
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Mid year has come and gone, still no paper options?
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Paper options would be the best thing as they would allow those who wanted to do more of a "high end" photo quality book an option for a heavier stock at an increased price. That would also provide a way for the folks doing more text-based work to keep the cheaper paper (and the costs down.) I’m also in favor of an option for heavier paper.
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80# translates to 118 gsm Oh dear, that’s very off putting! :-( Yophoto use 170gsm, for not a lot more money. As many have already said, they’d be more than willing to pay extra for a better product. I started working on a wedding album in yophoto, but admit I was seduced by the dust cover used by booksmart, so am half way through doing it with the booksmart software. But reading this thread has really put me off, glad I didn’t scrap the yophoto software.
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Although there are some users who are not happy with the thickness of the paper, bear in mind that I and probably 20,000 others are! There are close to 17,000 books in the book store plus all 1000’s who have not made their books public. It would be good to have a choice, but it does not stop the majority of us producing damn good books. ......Tony
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ignorance is bliss, i suppose, for you and those 20,000 others,Tony. i’m sitting here with five printed books before me and a sixth on the way … from five different companies. paper stock varies, but Blurb is – by a landslide – the thinnest paper of all … and since i intend to supply these to clients, i need quality. Blurb is NOT that. until i received my Blurb book i hadn’t thought it necessary to consider paper weight … my bad. now that i’ve done more research – since i am producing these for clients, not my own amusement – i have found another company that uses the same printer that Blurb uses but actually prints on 115 lb paper. not sure why Blurb can’t do this from the start, especially since the book i’m getting is roughly the same price. of course, i don’t have it yet in hand, so i’ll reserve my raves at this point, but the fact that their BASE stock is 115 lb is something of significance (they offer other grades of stock beyond this), and when speaking to a rep at length today, they scoffed at 80 lb paper and wondered why any book press would print at that weight. my fingers are crossed with this new press … they’re in canada and the US and europe. they also stitch vs. glue. so far, amazing customer service. like i said, i’ll reserve further comment until i get my hands on the product though.
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Blurb is a quality product! It just doesn’t happen to use the paper stock that meets your requirements. Ignorance is bliss? Not my own amusement? Isn’t that pretty denigrating to the rest of us? Good luck in your search. .........Tony
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I asked in a UK forum I frequent, if anyone had any opinions on the booksmart product, and received the following, I’ve had a book done by Blurb (Booksmart), and the quality was excellent. Nothing wrong with the paper quality at all. We’ll see!
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<font size="3"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri">We ordered our first Blurb book in January, 2008. Since then we ordered a few more copies of the same book and we are disappointed with the quality of prints. We compare the books and the drop in quality is apparent, that is despite a 20-some per cent in price increase. The paper is thinner and of lower quality, the prints are not clear (there is a reason why I take pictures with the highest end Nikons and Canons, each being in the magnitude of 5-6 MB). I expected that the quality would have at least stayed the same after you increased the price by 26%. It is surprising, unexpected and very disappointing that the quality has dropped. </font></font></font> <font size="3"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri">I want to be able to purchase high quality prints, even if it costs me more. </font></font></font> <font size="3"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri">Have you considered offering different paper grades at different prices? </font></font></font> <font face="Calibri" size="3" color="#000000">Best regards, Klare</font>
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Hi Klare; There is no fundamental reason, that I can think of anyway, why a re-print from the same file should not produce identical output – all other things at the printers end being equal… If the reproduction really is bad, then you should contact Blurb Order Support and request a re-print or restitution… You can do so here… [click on link]. Cheers; Lee
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Lee, thank you very much for your quick response and the offer of re-prints. We have our Janyuary’s print in our library and the lower quality prints are for general sharing and among others, and so it’s all fine. Our true concern is about the quality of our upcoming book, "I will find you, love you, marry you". We spent substantial amount of effort and time, and money, and we truly want this book to at least match the quality (in paper and print) of our January’s prints. This is is truly what we are concerned about. If we could assure that the paper is nice and thick, and absorbs paint well then all will be fine. Best regards, Klare
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Let me start by saying that I was on the verge of placing my first order with Blurb and this thread has forced me to rethink my options.
I have been in the print and design industry for over 17 years and have worked on some of the largest print campaigns the UK has ever seen! I have worked directly for print manufacturers and am British Print Industries Federation certified. I have in depth knowledge of HP Indigo digital presses (as well as Heidelberg offset litho and Xerox iGen 3 and Docucolour print on demand presses).
To say you print on 80lb paper is virtually meaningless. American paper weights rely on knowing the sheet size and ream size before a calculation of material density can be made. However using the sheet size that I know this press can accept as an indication and an average 500 sheet ream, this would mean that Blurb were printing on the European equivalent of 120gsm paper. This is by no means the thinnest type of paper these presses can go down to (they can print comfortably down to 80gsm) it is definitely on the thinner types of book papers used for books with a high photographic content. I have recently produced picture intensive books for general distribution with paper weights as high as 200 gsm.
I would not see a problem with offering a prestige product with an enhanced paper weight of around 170gsm as standard. I am sure from this post alone that there would be a large portion of your market that would be willing to pay a premium for a prestige product.
Yes, it would have an impact on a 400pp book but then again, how many people would regularly be producing a 400pp book. I think we would all agree that a lot of the people who use your services are photographers wanting to show off their work to best effect (whether private individuals or photography companies).
While 120gsm (80lb) paper is definitely suitable for average production I really think NOT offering a prestige paper option closer to 170gsm is both a missed opportunity and, in the long term, poor customer service. Possibly you could include this option as part of your B3 commercial programme?!
As a side line, opacity (the ability to see images through a sheet) is not directly proportional to paper weight. While I agree paper weight is an indicator of opacity it can also be down to the exact sheet type being used. Two different 120gsm sheets from to different paper manufacturers can have completely different opacity characteristics. Only by specifying a particular sheet type and mill can you get proper sheet conformity for international production.
I don’t know if this is going to fall on deaf ears but I really don’t think that 120gsm paper is up to the job for a product that in many instances is a unique and very special publication or to show off a photographers best work. There has been much talk in this thread of Blurb offering a paper weight alternative around the middle of 2008 and I would really appreciate some one official from Blurb telling us where we stand. It would save me looking for an alternative supplier for my Albums.
Many thanks – Cyrus
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I truly like what Cyrus wrote and I believe that he’s got a strong point in saying that "there would be a large portion of your market (Blurb.com’s) that would be willing to pay a premium for a prestige product." I for myself would be glad to pay more and in exchange to know that I am getting a consistently high quality product. I don’t know the business structure Blurb.com operates under; I am guessing that Blurb’s jobs are outsourced to various individual print shops. If so, I can see how quality control may be of a greater issue. The lack of reliability in quality may, and it sounds that it does, serve as a strong detriment in gaining/retaining/loosing custores. Ultimately, it is Blurb’s business decission whether or not to enhance it’s printing capabilities by introducing higher quality paper. I believe in efficient markets and that sooner or later a consistently high quality product will be available to us, customers. I would like it to come from Blurb.com, they have good software, they came up with a good business idea and so I’d like them to continue to do well, and service well. Blurb.com, it’s up to you. Best regards, Klare
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Hey everyone, Thanks for all the great feedback on paper options and quality. We’re very aware that Blurbarians want more than one paper choice and we are hard at work to make that choice a reality. However, adding new paper is not as simple as feeding new stock into the printing device. That said, we are in the midst of researching and testing many options. As soon as we have more information, we’ll let you know. Thanks for your patience! – Kathy
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Kathy,
Thank you so much for the reply however – speaking as a print professional (and someone that has run international print brokering schemes in the past for international corporations) the issue really IS as simple as increasing the weight of the stock being put into the press. The front end implementation issues pertain to order processing and stock selection and manufacture identification should relatively easily be incorporated into your current business model using some modification of you website and the costing databases upon which your ordering is based and the use of a decent integrated MIS system.
<pre><code>I would assume that from a quality control perspective you would already have selected a supplier network who are all using the same presses and similar (if not necessarily identical) bindery equipment. Using 170 gsm gloss art or silk art papers would have no significant impact on either bindery speed or press rates for the volumes that you are typically running (infact it is true that HP indigo's and Xerox iGen's both run slightly better with a slightly more weighty stock.) I would further assume that you will be single sourcing your paper from a single merchant or mill to receive a tonnage discount so all that would be required would be to select a suitable prestige stock to offer as an alternative. In reality this option could be brought to market within a period of about a month with little or no upfront investment on Blurbs part.</code></pre>
So while I appreciate your effort in answering my post, it does smack of a delaying tactic. Could you give us a definitive timeframe within which you would hope to implement and alternative stock regime or will we still be having this conversation at Xmas time.
If you need an experienced International consultant to effectively implement this product for you in a more timely fashion then I would be happy to offer my services.
Otherwise, while you may thank us for our patience – you may find that patience is wearing a bit thin!!
Thank you – in anticipation of your swift and positive reply – Cyrus
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Hi Cyrus, No delay tactic here. I wish I could give you a definitive timeline, but as other long-time Blurbarians will tell you, we release a new product or feature when it is ready. We try not to cater to and announce exact dates because we leave a lot of disappointed people in our wake if we happen to miss said date. Blurb has a lot of moving parts, not just those of the printers, so please understand that this is one of the top priorities we are working on. – Kathy
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