Can you see this printing (dot screen) fault?
I recieved a $900 order of books recently with a major printing fault. After almost two weeks of emails and photographs of the problem, Blurb have agreed to reprint, but continue to assert they still cannot see the problem. I would like to know if people here can see the printing problems in the following images? Or am I going stark raving mad? I ordered two proof or shop copies of the book when it was originally layed out, and these were close to perfect. Apart from a large shipping delay (UPS), I was very happy with the book and the printing. I then presold some books from those copies and placed a second order. This is a photograph of a page from one of the original books: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/0011_good.jpg and this is the same page from one of the faulty reorderd books: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/0010_not_good.jpg And again, a page from an original copy: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/0017_good.jpg and the same page from a faulty copy: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/0018_not_good.jpg A good copy: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/0030_good.jpg and a faulty copy: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/0033_not_good.jpg Those cyan dots you’re seeing in the monotone images in the faulty books also appear throughout the full colour images. Eg: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/0029_not_good.jpg http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/0025_not_good.jpg Here is a single image showing the direct comparission of both a faulty copy and an original copy in one image: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/0006_both.jpg The following is Blurb Support’s lattest reply in response to the same images you see above: "Hi Brett,
I have had several members of our operations team review your images in order to get a reprint approved. Unfortunately, the images that you are sending us really do not give us much to go on as far as evaluating or identifying any sort of printing error. We will attempt one more print run to see if it does turn out any differently in your opinion, but we are concerned that you may simply be seeing or describing a problem that is an expected part of the variations in our process.
Should you need to report any issues with books ordered in the future, please know that we will require a digital image that will clearly display any sort of printing error or defect.
Best,
[Name with held]" I am very interested in any feedback at all on this issue. Thank you. Sincerely, Flabergasted.
|
|
|
|
|
Hello Flabergasted! Well, I can certainly say that I CAN see the Cyan pixels in your comparison images! There are a number of threads in the forums about problems associated with printing monotone images – but these are usually associated with colour-casts. I don’t believe I’ve seen a post along these lines where individual pixels have a colour-cast! Unless Blurb were looking at the compressed images, I don’t see how they could have failed to see the differences, and I certainly wouldn’t accept that it was an…. "...expected part of the variations in our process." That seems to be a wholly unreasonable "catch-all" that could be applied to any scenario! Anyhow, all that said, in my experience, Blurb’s customer-support is first class, and I’m sure they will resolve the situation for you – even though it’s frustrating to have to go through the hoops.. Good luck; Lee
|
|
|
|
|
I am astonished that Blurb staff say that they cannot see the difference in those images. They are clear as night and day, and when you have just spent $900 on your order, I also would find their response VERY disturbing. Like Lee, I have had an excellent all-around experience with Blurb (customer service, print quality, etc). I certainly expect that they will square up with you in the end (not that that excuses the hold-ups you are having now). Good luck in your correspondence with them and rest assured, your eyes are fine (assuming I can say that, given the strength of my prescription). :) Teri
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks Lee and Teri. You have confirmed what I felt. Much appreciated. Brett
|
|
|
|
|
interesting … in my first book (printed in Netherlands) I did about 20 pages with monochrome images (desaturated RGB jpeg files). I was pretty unhappy with the outcome: green or magenta tones within the same picture, depending on where you look. Very disturbing in areas with many different gray tones (e.g.cloudy sky). When looking closely I also have this same cyan dot problem in many pages. I also found another problem which I think has to do with rastering (or printing artifact?): in high contrast areas with fine repeating detail (e.g. sunlit rooftiles) I see lots of brightly colored dots in all kinds of colors. It’s not very obvious if you look at the printed page with the naked eye, but if you magnify the page it is clear that something is wrong. Blurb support responded to the problem (I can reprint the book) and suggested it is a one-time glitch, but it seems they don’t know for sure. I hope we hear more about what is going wrong here, because I was planning to do some books with BW pictures only …
|
|
|
|
|
I totally see the problem.
It seems like a file issue to me, it looks like somehow the compression is going wonky. I’m no printing expert, but it is obvious that the printing methods were different for the proof and the blurb book.
I’m glad Blurb was able to correct this for you, I’m interested to see how the re-prints turn out.
|
|
|
|
|
leahlady, I don’t call myself a printing expert either, but I have worked as a professional photographer for newspapers and publications for the past 20yrs. I even established and ran my own prepress business a few years back. All I mean by this is that I’ve looked very closely at a lot of printing and I understand printing processes very well. I started way back in the pre-digital days of bromides, copy cameras and paste up.
There are two issues here.
Firstly, I do not believe this is a file issue. The issue is clearly with malformed dot screens, predominately with the cyan screen, but is also evident with the magenta in places. I believe the malformed dot screens have either been generated digitally by the RIP, or a physical malfunction (possibly a maintenance issue) at the inking and printing cylinders of the press.
But, the real issue is that of quality control. Mistakes happen. Things do go wrong. Maintenance is unavoidable. We all have to deal with this in our everyday lives. My order, and I suspect this is not a one off case, should never have been dispatched. Someone at the printers should have picked this up and thrown up a red flag. Do Blurb even have a quality control? I don’t know, but they need to. Was the order just dispatched regardless, hoping I wouldn’t know any better? I don’t know this either. Only Blurb can answer these questions.
I could have been a great customer, and I certainly was a great advocate for a short time. Sadly, I now feel compelled to warn people off.
|
|
|
|
|
Order Date: 16 June 2008. It will be five weeks on Monday since these books were originally ordered and charged.
|
|
|
|
|
Hmm .. bad news I’m afraid. The reprints arrived today (Wednesday, 23rd July) with the exact same problem only slightly more pronounced. I will have to refund all my customers this week. Can anyone advise how I should persue this with Blurb? I now wonder if leahlady might not be correct above. I ask in all earnestness. Can someone from Blurb please tell me how the files are stored after the first printing? Are additional orders from the same book reprinted from the original files that were uploaded from Booksmart, or are the RIP’ed halftone files somehow stored for future use? This is my distinct impression at present. I will make some detailed images available shortly.
|
|
|
|
|
It’s 2.30am after a very long day so please excuse my brevity. I will add further images and explanation tomorrow as time permits.
This is a 600PPI scan of the title page from one of the books from the original order for comparison:
http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/title_page_600ppi_good.jpg And an equivalent 600PPI scan of the title page from one of the books from the books I received today: (remember to zoom in and scroll around) http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/title_page_600ppi.jpg Here’s a closer crop (and a smaller file) from the same scan as the good book above, highlighting specific details of the face: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/title_page_600ppi_face_good.jpg And the comparison from a book recieved today: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/title_page_600ppi_face.jpg And lastly, from one of the original good books, a high resolution 3200PPI scan of a section of the same title page as scanned above: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/title_page_3200ppi_face_good.jpg And a 3200PPI scan from one of the faulty books recieved today: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/title_page_3200ppi_face.jpg As you can see, these books are unusable.
|
|
|
|
|
One of the original books ordered on the 28th March 2008: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page52_1200ppi_crop_tl_good.jpg Equivelent image from a faulty book received yesterday (23rd July 2008): http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page52_1200ppi_crop_tl.jpg Please just click the links. I don’t think they’ll require further explanation. A good copy: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page52_1200ppi_crop_br_good.jpg A faulty reprint: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page52_1200ppi_crop_br.jpg Good: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page36_colour_1200ppi_chest_crop_good.jpg Faulty: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page36_colour_1200ppi_chest_crop.jpg Good: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page36_colour_1200ppi_crop_good.jpg Faulty: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page36_colour_1200ppi_crop.jpg Good: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page29_1200ppi_good.jpg Faulty: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page29_1200ppi.jpg These are much larger files (around 9 Mb) to allow more detailed comparisons. Best with a broadband connection. Please zoom to 100% to view. Good: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page09_1200ppi_good.jpg Faulty: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page09_1200ppi.jpg Good: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page27_1200ppi_good.jpg Faulty: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page27_1200ppi.jpg I look foreward to your response Blurb, Brett :(
|
|
|
|
|
Maybe I should throw these full pages for good measure> Good: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page52_600ppi_good.jpg Faulty: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page52_600ppi.jpg
|
|
|
|
|
Hi BrettDorron, I have seen this problem come up a couple times before, and we had thought it arose from a filter such as sharpening being over-applied in Photoshop. Teknik’s observation above was consistent with my experience, as well—that the problem was confined to "high contrast areas with fine repeating detail." However, since you had previously received a good printing of the same images, there is clearly something going wrong here on our end. I will consult an engineer and have customer support send you our findings through the correspondence you have open with them. Best regards and thank you for hanging in there,
Jeremy
|
|
|
|
|
I will be watching this thread carefully! I too have had the same problems, subsequent orders (after the first batch of books which were quite acceptable) have had terrible problems with colour casts all over the B+W images, enormous grain, blacks not deep enough, etc. which are truly unacceptable ‘variations’ in printing. I’ll be contacting Blurb support about this. And yes, I can also see the differences in your files – they are blatantly obvious. I hope Blurb sorts this matter out for you ASAP.
|
|
|
|
|
I have examples of the apparent over sharpening mentioned by teknik and yourself in these books also Jeremy, but I felt showing those here might confuse the issue. They are a symptom, not the cause. As I’m sure you can imagine, they can be quite grotesque when associated with people and skin tone. Here’s one example, and *remember*, these are separate results from the same book upload. The changes here have happened on either Blurb’s or their printer’s systems. In these examples, the statements that Blurb prints our uploaded files "as is", without any alterations do not appear to be accurate. Texture example from one of the original books: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page13_1200ppi_crop_texture_good.jpg Equivelent image from a faulty book received 23rd July 2008: http://www.brettdorron.com/blurb_issues/page13_1200ppi_crop_texture.jpg Hanging in there? ... I’m on the edge of my seat. Let me assure you. You have my money, and I don’t have my books. I put a lot of time, effort and expense into this book with the intention of recouping a profit (all images were scanned from film). So far, for me, Blurb has been a disaster. I think Blurb is a great model. Maybe the best I’ve seen. And I hope it may one day be a viable option, but I’m certainly not convinced that is the case right now.
|
|
|
|
|
Hi all, I just wanted to assure anyone reading that Customer Support is communicating with Brett through the incident he submitted via our help page. When a problem is found to be somewhere on our end, which seems to be the case here, we of course make it right for the author. Also, please note this particular problem is extremely rare. This kind of color speckling has affected only a handful of orders among the hundreds of thousands of orders we’ve filled. Nonetheless, we’re taking the technical issue seriously and are consulting our print operations experts. In the meantime, customer support is working to make this right for Brett, and Blurbarians in general can be assured their book will be in the 99.999% of orders that won’t be affected by this issue. Cheers,
Jeremy
|
|
|
|
|
Jeremy, I’m new to Blurb and am now in the process of making up our art book. This was a concerning post to us and your direct reply has quelled our fears somewhat and we will continue in our design efforts. We feel it is important for Blurb staff to read AND reply to these posts so we users know that Blurb is on top of things. Thanks Dave
|
|
